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The Death of Brian Jones
The Wild and Wycked
World of Brian Jones
Message 51 - Wednesday 22nd December 2004
Hello fellow fans,
I would just like to add that I have been reading
your comments these last few months and I really enjoy all of the
insight!, too, cannot wait for the movie to come out and sure hope that
it will be released here in the States. I think it is long overdue that
a project like the movie finally will shed some light on Brians death.
More importantly the movie will grant Brian the respect he deserves.
Something the other Stones - other than Bill -have never done. Which
irritates the hell out of me. Each month I look for for any new books,
magazine articles etc...about Brian and the Stones. Each time I find
something new I wonder "Is this the time they finally say anything nice
about Brian?" Each time though....the answer is no. Perhaps I am wrong
on this one. If so, I would appreciate anyone telling me where to look.
Thanks. Keep sending in those comments. They help keep Brians spirit
alive!!!
George
Message 52 - Friday 24th December 2004
Wow, 666...it's a good question to try to interpret
ANYTHING Keith R says lately.. (my fave was his interpretation that
Lennon died by the bullet, and George by the knife??) i would think he
is just admitting that he himself was also unsympathetic to Brian
because he felt Brian was himself to blame for not 'going well' -- maybe
he was, but y'know I'd like to see Keith explain that one to St. Peter
at the pearly gates.
Snatch!
I just think it's funny how someone can hold a
grudge so many years later.. How insecure! and this is suppose to be the
coolest rocker ever? well y'know maybe he is, but definitely not when it
comes to THIS achilles heel huh??
He tries to paint Brian as something pathetic, when
he knows when it came to anything, whether it be good looks, chicks,
musical talent, clothes and social grace -- he was a complete second
rate dude next to Mr Jones, and that's why I guess, adventurous, and
hot, Miss Anita went straight to Brian ..
That male ego is something else huh?
In Jagger's case, well he is so terrified of the
case being opened and the truth the he knows OR knows not to surface..
You gotta have some sympathy for the devil though:
just as he was really reaching his peak as an incredible performer,
Brian went and died, and it forever nearly ruined his moment. and always
seems to threaten him in some way.
He cried so much about it supposedly. in Wyman's
book he says to Mick, 'what are you going to do? you can't bring him
back.'
Roxanne
Message 53 - Monday 27th December 2004
Couldn't agree more George and Roxanne.
This is so preposterous, just a lark:
http://www.fufkin.com/columns/lynch/lynch_03_01.htm
More positive:
http://iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,170002
Brian Fan #666
Message 54 - Thursday 30th December 2004
A statement was made to me sometime ago that any
movie regarding the death of Brian is good as it will make people aware
of what happened to Brian, regardless of the accuracy of the facts. I
don't agree. Brian Jones deserves the truth to be told so that he may
rest in peace. First and foremost is this crap about there only being
four people there that night. There was some sort of party and I truly
hope someone in this world who knows the truth will come forward and
tell the true facts about that terrible night. Someone who was there who
can shed a light on who else was there be them sinister or not!. I feel
having Tom Keylock involved in the making of the movie will just be
hogwash as far as facts go. Also Anna Wohlin had a chance to share the
truth in her book but also failed to do so. If she couldn't tell the
truth out of fear or legalities, she should never have written that
book! So lets hope this movie reveals some semblance of the truth for
the sake of Brian and for the sake of pure justice.
Bob
Message 55 - Saturday 1st January 2005
Happy new year.
It's rather disconcerting the animosity towards
Brian's lover Anna Wohlin, not to mention the homophobia exhibited by
some fans. Anna was so clear why she wrote the book, that Brian wouldn't
want people to think he died of drugs, and I for one am grateful she
wrote it, knowing that it was edited beyond her control. In honor of
Brian~
All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the whole universe
Will ever compare
I am yours now and u are mine
And together we'll love through
All space and time, so don't cry
One day all 7 will die
All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the whole universe
Will ever compare
I am yours now and u are mine
And together we'll love through
All space and time, so don't cry
One day all 7 will die
And I saw an angel come down unto me
In her hand she holds the very key
Words of compassion, words of peace
And in the distance an army's marching feet
(1,2,3,4 - 1,2,3,4)
But behold, we will watch them fall
And we lay down on the sand of the sea
And before us animosity will stand and decree
That we speak not of love only blasphemy
And in the distance, 6 others will curse me
But that's alright, (that's alright)
4 I will watch them fall(1,2,3,4,5,6,7)
Brian Fan #666
Message 56 - Tuesday 4th January 2005
Leo is a very funny guy, i was an extra for this
film in a scene with Leo on a cold day doing a cold event playing a
student at Brian's school but a school event (not actually in a school,
it was an event that would have happened outside of school). Only being
16 I don't know much about the Rolling Stones but obviously knew of them
and their music, and now have a larger knowledge of Brian, The Rolling
Stones and there music. I borrowed a friend of a friends forty licks CD
just so i could get some broader knowledge of the music and I liked it.
Although this is a bit late but regarding message
#21 about has the filming finished, the answer to that is no, they only
started in September, I did my filming in November, and everywhere I've
looked has no information on a release date except from '2005'
ALSO regarding message #46 i hope this film will go
out to theatres/cinemas all over as it will be interesting for a lot of
people, although it does seem more of documentary material but also it
could just go out straight to video/dvd, but will be good for publicity
if it was to go out to cinemas.
I shall put your site in my 'favourites' and keep
visiting this forum
Keep up the good work BJFC
Clive
Message 57 - Wednesday 5th January 2005
Could someone clarify for me. Isn't this film being
touted as fiction, not a documentary? Who owns the rights to Anna's
book? Is it true her book rights were sold for this film?
Brian Fan #666
Message 58 - Thursday 6th January 2005
In response to Bob (message 54) I have to agree
that having Tom Keylock involved in the making of the movie is of major
concern since it was he that concocted the deathbed confession of Frank
Thorogood's which never actually happened!! How can we believe anything
in it after that?
Mark
Message 59 - Thursday 6th January 2005
Hello Brian Fans!
It's been a while since I've been here - I want to
wish all you Brian fans & the BJFC all the best in 2005 - Hopefully 2005
will also be good for Brian in that the truth comes out due to the movie
& hopefully a reinvestigation into Brian's death as Brian deserves
nothing less! - I know that Brian must feel really good knowing that so
many of you are still thinking of him which really speaks volumes in
that you still care! It's sad about negative comments being made towards
Brian after all this time which is really just jealously - Brian had the
looks, talents & had the chicks & really had such an aura about him and
now he's a legend otherwise we all wouldn't be still talking about Brian
after all this time now would we! George - at the Experience Music
Project (rock n roll museum in Seattle) there's a huge Jimi Hendrix
exhibit & there's a film about Hendrix where they show video of Brian
introducing Jimi to the Monterey pop crowd & you can also seen Brian
strolling around the fair grounds at Monterey (prince jones!) which is
shown daily! & in the Jimi exhibit you can hear Tah Mahal speak highly
of Brian & of his musical contributions to the music of the Stones with
samples of Stones songs - so everyday people are learning about Brian
who go thru the Jimi exhibit! As being the one who introduced Jimi to
America, Brian will be remembered for eternity due to Jimi's history
besides being in the Stones! Brian fan #666 - the movie is not a
documentary, it's about the last 3 weeks of Brian's life with a few
scenes of Edith Grove days, Keith - Anita - Brian - Morrocco trip
senerio-scenes like that but mostly about the last 3 weeks! I do hope
that there is new info to get the case reopened into Brian's
death-please sign the ipetitions JUSTICE FOR BRIAN JONES! :
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/chlorinedreammadstifledwitness/
True Brian Fan
Kevin.
Message 60 - Friday 7th January 2005
The "Uncut" article just published gives some more
insight into the movie. It seems to be approaching the story as an
encapsulation of the social upheaval of 60's Britain. The restless, self
indulgent , colourful youth versus the older , cynical and repressed
older generation. It also seems that it will try to show all aspects to
Brian's personality ( which might prove difficult in 90 minutes).
As regards the circumstances of the death, they
seem to lean towards the Terry Rawlings version . Thus we have Tom
Keylock lurking around in some sort of advisory capacity, no doubt being
paid for his trouble, even though some accounts of the Cotchford tragedy
place him at the scene of the crime. At the very least we know Keylock
was a friend of Thorogood, and he only came forward with the deathbed
confession once Thorogood had passed away. This immediately casts some
doubts about the film makers desires to get to the absolute truth, in my
opinion.
There are also some comments from the BJFC's Trevor
Hobley about fresh forensic evidence and the possibility that Brian's
body could yet be exhumed and another post mortem carried out. Blimey.
Dunc
Message 61 - Saturday 8th January 2005
I am interested in what Trevor Hobley has to say
about Brian's death. The UNCUT magazine promised a new theory but we're
not told what it is. Why can't it be said?
Tracey
Message 62 - Saturday 8th January 2005
How did Tom Keylock become involved in Brian's
demise? I was under the impression that Frank murdered Brian due to
something about being paid and getting angry at Brian for other things
as well. I always thought Tom Keylock HATED Brian all this time. It
would not serve any purpose to exhume the remains because there would
not be any remains to conduct another autopsy unless it would be in the
skeletal remains.
Speaking of this morbid and gruesome subject, maybe
some of you fans might be aware of a website that apparently surfaced,
called The Death Of Brian Jones. This site, which is still under
construction claims it will be showing autopsy photos of Brian after he
went to the morgue. Well, after checking this site myself, the pictures
in my opinion are fake (real bad). I am at a total loss as to why some
person would do this to Brian or any celebrity or anyone and put them on
a website.
Also, am under the impression that autopsy photos
are ones that are taken by a photographer (police photographer?) as the
Medical Examiner proceeds to dissect the remains and so forth. Another
thing, this idiot cannot have access to such photos anyway, because they
are not available for the general public use. What I am saying is this
is being presented for your information only in case some people are not
aware of it at this time. So much for that.
And as far as Anita in my humble opinion Brian was
for the most part in LUST with her. They did drugs together, partied
hearty together, and shagged all the time. They fought like cats and
dogs, and had others on the side when not together. I felt it was like
Brian was driving a regular car and then given a Ferrari to drive around
instead. They may have had some common interests, but sex, drugs, booze,
& Rock and Roll were their mainstays. She was looking for Mick as I have
been told repeatedly and Mick was not really interested. So I guess
Keith was there instead. It gets confusing sometimes.
I wish I had one of those age enhancing features on
my computer just to see what Brian may look like today if he had lived.
Would be interesting to see just what would come out.
So am looking forward to the movie, maybe things
will be more readily explained or presented more clearly on the screen.
Linda Zerr
Message 63 - Sunday 9th January 2005
In reply to message # 61, Tracy, the Fan Clubs
investigation into the events leading up to, and subsequent to Brian’s
death suggest a sequence that differs from the ‘official’ version put
out by the authorities in 1969 and the numerous newspaper articles
printed over the past 35 years, and also the many books written on the
subject. We’ve interviewed, under Confidentiality Agreements, many of
the people involved and as was reported in the Uncut magazine article,
have our own theory of events. But, as the term suggests, a theory is a
hypothesis, an assumption and in broad terms, speculation. No police
authority is going to act on speculation and as experience has shown in
the past, when any representation has been made to Sussex police for a
re-investigation the response has always been negative due to the lack
of factual evidence.
However our theory does contain certain previously
unearthed factual evidence and it’s this information that has to be
correctly and accurately presented to the authorities, and as you might
read below that is the stage where we are now.
I am most grateful to the deputy editor of Uncut
magazine Paul Lester and reporter Carol Clerk for such an enlightening
article chronicling Brian’s life for the general public who might not be
aware of the circumstances regarding Brian’s life-story. We, the Fan
Club editorial team, are also grateful for the opportunity to contribute
our position regarding his death in the fourteen page article,
especially at such a time when we have a presentation of facts in front
of the Chief Constable, Sussex Police. We await his response.
Our contribution to the article filled the final
page but was understandably edited (for those who have not read the
article, segments, including the last page can be found at Gerry Seda’s
message-board
www.voy.com/30551/) and although pleased with the final version, our
original transcript contained more information, including a very
relevant photograph that I’m sorry was not included in the piece
(choosing instead photographs of myself and Pat which we felt were
unnecessary and irrelevant). A copy of the original, including the
photograph can be found by following this link.
As our ‘theory’ at this point in time is just a
theory we cannot make comment but the police have to respond and when
that response is forthcoming, Fan Club members will be the first to
know. Dependent on the Chief Constables’ response will determine our
next course of action.
Thanks once again to all who’ve contributed to this
forum and please keep the comments coming.
Trevor Hobley
Message 64 - Sunday 9th January 2005
This film is just one big joke - the books on which
it is based are full of inaccuracies! This is little more than an insult
to a great musician - who should be remembered for his musical abilities
and not this rubbish!
Lee
Message 65 - Sunday 9th January 2005
Thank you so very much for posting the Original
Interview Transcript for Uncut Magazine. I have just printed it out,
along with other items from the Death of Brian Jones website threads and
I am forever grateful to Mr. Hobley for doing this and the Brian Jones
fans who post messages on here and other Brian sites. I am so very happy
for this.
Please keep posting and talking about Brian Jones,
whether it is about his short life on this planet, his music, his
relationships with others and anything that will allow his memory to
live on. We all have our own views and thoughts on Brian, and whatever
they are they are important because we all have something to contribute.
Brian's real living spirit will always be at Cotchford Farm because he
loved it so very much. I am sure he looks at it with great pride as the
present owners have gone to great lengths to keep it looking the way it
has always looked and adding their own personal touches as well. Let us
all remember Brian as we wish, and keep his memory alive always.
Linda Zerr
Message 66 - Monday 10th January 2005
If it ever come to that, I support exhumation of
the body. It's a body, not Brian's soul.
About the film, I don't see what the brouhaha is
about if it's touted as a fictional film not a documentary.
A thought occurred to me recently, what with Elvis'
recent anniversary, that there is quite a lot of
shows/movies/memorabilia/books etc to remember Elvis even after those
who knew him have passed away. But what will be left to remember Brian
when his friends & lovers have passed on? Just his music & some false
books & this fictional movie. Thank god for Bill Wyman's book & Anna's
book, UNCUT & the previous Mojo mag special on Brian.
Brian Fan #666
Message 67 - Saturday 15th January 2005
Could there have been any way to prevent Brian's
death back then? Did Brian suspect this was going to be a dangerous
confrontation to get rid of Thorogood; from what I've read I believe he
did, and was aware of the people against him. Didn't Anita also call
Brian that night? I wonder what that was about.
Brian Fan #666
Message 68 - Sunday 16th January 2005
Whilst adding the Editor of Uncut magazines
comments about their current February 2005 issue to our website, we
linked to the Uncut website and happened upon the update which includes
interviews with people on the set – I’ve added the interviews to the
BJFC site which can be seen following this link - makes interesting
reading on how the film makers perceive Brian and how the film portrays
the story, from the horses mouth so to speak.…
Trevor Hobley
Message 69 - Sunday 16th January 2005
Hi Brian Fans,
I want to say that I can't wait for the film i just
hope they don't make it shit and portray Brian wrong.
Sidney Jones
Message 70 - Monday 17th January 2005
Hi jones fans I cant wait to see this Movie I got
the uncut special this month which has a few new photos in of Leo
playing Brian at the marquee club he doesn't look to much like a young
Brian to me the hair is not right at all.
I've also herd there is to be no stones music in at
all but UNCUT says there is.
If there's not stones music in the film jagger/richards
should be shot after all they wouldn't be anywhere is it wasn't for this
man.
Also does anyone know of a trailer release?
normski
Message 71 - Tuesday 18th January 2005
In the Latest issue of Uncut magazine it states
that Brian's Friend(?) Nicholas Fitzgerald claimed he was sleeping with
him. Is there any corroboration for this statement?
Was Brian bisexual? Surely Anna would have known
about this?
Hoping for some answers
Kieran
Message 72 - Tuesday 18th January 2005
Is it true Eric Clapton was working on the score of
the movie?
I can't believe that comment from Rawlings where he
very carefully worded that response about Keylock... very careful not to
come out & say that Keylock LIED. Also that comment from Leo about there
being many different stories which came out on purpose to confuse the
public from knowing the real truth. But with Keylock as consultant how
would the truth come out with this movie? Also the actress playing Anna
put it very well & good that she admitted she had to discard Anna's
viewpoint in order to follow Stephen's direction, and this film is
"Stephen work of art". It's not about the truth. So Brian actually
provoked & wanted his own death according to the actor playing Keith? My
my my said the spider to the fly, jump right ahead in my web. Only the
spider is Wooley.
Brian Fan #666
Message 73 - Wednesday 19th January 2005
Hello Brian fans,
Linda-yes the site with the autopsy pics are
fakeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!
The pics of Brian lying in the pool - Brian's hair
is going straight down instead of hanging back - Brian's face (taken in
67) was added on backwards! the pics at the morgue (next day - amazing
how Brian's hair grew!) - Brian's face (taken at the beggars banquet
party - Nov 68) was also added on backwards - What a joke! On the Uncut
interviews link - Stephen says that he don't think any of us WOULD'VE
LIKED Brian? & that Brian's life wasn't as idyllic and lovely as Anna
PAINTED? & that there's evidence that there were other women around the
house, MAYBE WHEN Anna was visiting London & that Brian was also seeing
Suki again? but then turns around and says that Suki MAY HAVE come back
into Brian's life? Wade said that the mother of one of Brian's children
(PRESUMABLY Pat Andrews) talks of Brian LIKE HE WAS A GOD & that it's
ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO IMAGINE Brian still being around today?
Dewolfe who's playing Mick - Brian's A PSYCHO? &
Whishaw who's playing Keith - Brian ALMOST FORCES THEM (Keith & Anita)
to sleep together? & it's ALMOST AS IF Brian pushes Frank to murder him,
it was accidental, but IN A WAY he wanted it and he was PUSHING FOR IT?.
What god died & make it Wades choice to judge or validate Pat's views &
feelings about Brian? Let's see - WOULD'VE LIKED, PAINTED, MAYBE WHEN,
MAY HAVE, PRESUMABLY, LIKE HE WAS A GOD, ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO IMAGINE, A
PSYCHO, ALMOST FORCES THEM, ALMOST AS IF, IN A WAY, PUSHING FOR IT?
I think you all get the picture! Kieran - Nicholas
sleeping with Brian? let's see? Pat, Dawn, Linda, Anita, Suki, Anna -
doubt it!
The link about the Specialist UK Forensic & Cold
Case Experts was amazing - Thanks Trevor! Again Thanks to Trevor & Pat
for all they're doing for Brian & yes Pat Brian will have his day! True
fan.
Kevin.
Message 74 - Wednesday 19th January 2005
I can't accept the insinuations that Brian was
playing mind games with Thorogood in order to precipitate his own
murder.
There have been comments from many who knew Brian,
including Anita, that his physical and mental state was improving since
the move to Cotchford. Add to this the circle of musicians who dropped
by, the prospect of forming a band, the paternal care of Alexis Korner
AND the report that there was a substantial royalty payment on its way
from the States.
Sounds like someone trying to create excuses for
the culprit ....
Dunc
Message 75 - Friday 21st January 2005
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Is this movie
yet another false theory being thrown in to confuse the masses as to
what really went down? High hopes all viewers will know this is
distorted fiction.
Brian Fan #666
Message 76 - Monday 24th January 2005
Hello Brian fans,
This is Carol Clerk.
First things first - many thanks to Trevor and the
BJFC editorial team for such a valuable contribution to our Uncut cover
feature! And thanks to the Forum members for taking such an interest in
the article and the associated website interviews, all of which I hope
have added a responsible and informative voice to the renewed wave of
interest in Brian's life and (particularly) his death.
I might be able to help answer several queries
posted on the Forum.
1. Having been on the Wild And Wycked set, I can
confirm that original Stones recordings were used during filming. The
band 'performed' to 'Little Red Rooster' and 'Not Fade Away' in the
Marquee scenes that I witnessed.
2. As I understand it, the movie is not being
promoted either as a fantasy or a biopic. It is a serious attempt to
examine the events leading to Brian's death in the context of the
society he lived in, one in which the newly rich and hedonistic pop
aristocracy was regarded with a certain bewilderment, resentment and/or
anger by an older, war-weary generation of people whose spirit had been
forged through sacrifice, fear, duty, family values, community spirit
and the hard-work ethic.
3. Stephen Woolley and his scriptwriters studied
every book they could lay their hands on and eventually acquired the
rights to three for the purposes of the film: Terry Rawlings' 'Who
Killed Christopher Robin?', Geoffrey Guiliano's 'Paint It Black' and
Anna Wohlin's 'The Murder Of Brian Jones'. It was decided that Terry's
book was the most authoritative and so the script was largely based on
'Christopher Robin' - although details from the other books are included
too. As I'm sure you know, Stephen spent 10 years researching the film.
He spoke to everyone he could possibly find, including Anna, Janet and,
of course, Tom Keylock (who wasn't the only consultant) as well as
police, locals and the owners of Cotchford Farm, and I'm convinced from
talking to him that he has done everything possible to explain the
likely circumstances in which Brian died. Now as for the surrounding
details - those lead to . . .
4. The laws of libel! Every journalist, author,
script-writer and film-maker is bound by a duty to their company that
they must not libel the living. And so while it is perfectly OK now to
point the finger of suspicion at Frank Thorogood for murdering Brian, no
mainstream publisher will permit any theories which incriminate living
people by contradicting what they have so far been prepared to admit. I
have my own theories about what happened at Cotchford Farm that night,
who was there and who did what, and I know that others in the media do
too. But we can't state them. Yet. For the time being, the whole truth
will only emerge if one of the witnesses decides to tell it - or if the
investigation is re-opened.
I have been wanting to write about Brian for a long
time, and The Wild And Wycked World of Brian Jones has enabled me to do
this at last. My role was to convey the suspicion and confusion
surrounding Brian's death by gathering the many differing versions of
events - including that of Nicholas Fitzgerald whose book (published
only in America, I think) made claims that he had been sleeping with
Brian and had seen him being held down in the pool by three people while
another couple watched.
By comparing and contrasting the official witness
statements and later revelations in books and interviews, it's possible
to place certain things in context and to read between the lines. . .
Anyway! There is a follow-up news story in the next
Uncut relating to the latest investigations of Terry Rawlings, whose
updated 'Christopher Robin', with three new chapters, will be released
this year, probably quite a while before the film release.
Also, I have now conducted an interview with Tom
Keylock, addressing many of the thorny issues in the story, and I will
be expecting to publish it in the near future.
Good luck y'all - and thanks for your time and
attention,
Carol x
Message 77 - Tuesday 25th January 2005
Will any of the other stones be featured
(portrayed) in the film. or is that the complete cast list? Btw: Is
there any way i can get my hands on a copy of the uncut magazine. or any
of the mag's that have been previously featured on this site?
PS: Fantastic site. w/ amazing info and good pics.
keep updating this is very suspenseful with the film's info and all. but
when will the film be out? will it out in selective theatres or what? i
have to know!
Desirae Starr
Message 78 - Wednesday 26th January 2005
I do not believe that Brian was bisexual-sorry.
Thank you Kevin for the comments made in your recent message. Anna lived
with Brian from March until July 1969 and I don't remember him leaving
his estate to go anywhere to see Suki, or anyone else unless Anna left
that part out.
Like many parents in the 1960's and forward (and
backwards as well) they were unable to teach their children about sex
and how to handle it, and how to practice safe sex, because they did not
know themselves.
When Brian became a father, his parents were more
worried about what the community would think, and how he would shame
them than try to offer support, love and understanding which he needed.
They did not understand that this would have been what they should have
done until many years later - I hope. Brian loved women and each woman
offered something for him in her own way. Anita was an exciting
sophisticated self assured woman, who had a lot of lifes experiences for
her age, and the Stones had never seen anything like her. She was
Brian's first sexually exciting "trophy" worldly girlfriend. She catered
to his fantasies, desires and opened new "exotic and erotic" worlds for
him. Like Kevin said when he moved into his estate he began to get his
life back together and started to become the person he really was. We
can speculate all we want as to what would have happened to him if he
had lived, but giving the man the benefit of the doubt he just might
have got his act together, got his music going and turned out fine and
dandy.
Much like Ringo Starr, Rod Stewart, Eric Clapton,
Roger Daltry, and a long list of others from the 1960's who are around
today who stopped using drugs and booze, and are doing quite well thank
you.
Linda
Message 79 - Wednesday 26th January 2005
Is there any way Brian's death could have been
prevented? What was that phone call from Anita on July 2nd about?
As for his sexuality; one's sexuality & sexual
thoughts or desires are a very private matter. Nor does it matter. Who
is to say? It is possible. But that depends on if you have an open mind.
After all, Anita has said so herself that MIck and Brian had a
1-nighter. Sexuality is not black or white, either/or. One can be
attracted to both sexes yet prefer one over the other. Look at Rock
Hudson or Mick Jagger. Such ladies men, yet.....
Brian Fan #666
Message 80 - Thursday 27th January 2005
If Wooley spent 10 years on this project
researching it, then he must know or suspect the truth even if he
chooses not to depict it in this film unfortunately.
I wonder if the film would show how Brian was
getting his act together in his final weeks & off drugs, his mood
improving and working on his solo project.
Miss U.
Message 81 - Saturday 29th January 2005
Hello Brian fans,
Thank you for your informative info in your post
#76 Carol, it was interesting. The movie set pics of early Stones -
Leo's hair doesn't look right at all! (not cut right) too straight -
even in the later pic of Leo with Gibson J-200 acoustic guitar - Brian
had more of a wave in his hair! I guess that they can't get everything
perfect. On the Rock n' Roll Circus - Brian doesn't look out of it as
much as some like to claim - Brian looks distant! like he didn't really
want to be there - can you really blame him? Notice how Brian looks very
happy & confident in the pics with John & Yoko, Rocky, Keith Moon, Roger
& others?. I like how certain stories & myths have grown over the years
like: that Brian couldn't play guitar correctly anymore because his
wrist hadn't healed properly? - Brian had no problem playing slide on No
Expectations at RNR Circus! Check out how Brian added the extra slide
note at the end of Expectations & how he looks at the camera - it was
like Brian was saying Got cha! the audience ate it up - Brian was saying
you ain't heard the end of me yet! Then there's the story that the
Stones wanted to tour & that Brian couldn't because he wasn't well
enough to tour & couldn't get a visa! The Stones didn't tour until the
fall - months after Brian died! I've read on the like a rolling stone
forum that Brian was in the states in Nov 68 in Greenwich Village (NYC)
hanging out with Bob Dylan & also in NYC in the spring of 69 - just a
couple months before he died! Legend has it that the last time Brian was
in the states was Sept 67 when the he flew over with the Stones to do
the Majesties Request cover shoot in NYC. How could Brian have flown
over in Nov 68 & spring of 69 if he couldn't get a visa? hhhmmmm.....????
Hello Miss U - I agree with you wondering if the
movie will portray Brian getting his act together in his final weeks &
off drugs, his mood improving & working on his solo project. Linda -
thank you for your response to my comments & also what you said in your
recent post#78: "like Kevin said when he moved into his estate he began
to get his life back together and started to become the person he really
was" - Yes Linda - I've moved into my estate & have began to get my life
together & becoming the person I really am! Thank you for your
compliments Linda! (laughs)I know you are laughing as you read this -
Yes Linda I know you meant Brian & yes Brian was getting his life
together - Seriously!
True fan - Kevin.
Message 82 - Sunday 30th January 2005
Hello Brian Fans,
Just wanted to know where Kevin (message # 81) read
or heard that Brian visited Dylan in November 68 and Winter 69.I cannot
recall reading such things anywhere. I would think in Bill Wyman's book
that would have been mentioned. Just a thought... if its true then I
would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for those visits. Can
you imagine those guys jamming together? How cool!! I know they played
the "Lost Jam" in New York, 1965. Remember, New York city lost all
electricity and power that night.I understand some other musicians were
there as well. I think the guitarist for "The Band" was one... anyway
Brian played Harmonica while Dylan played guitar. Pretty cool stuff. I
always thought Brian was buying his house, or looking to buy a house
during that particular period.
Just a prediction... I bet the Stones somehow take
advantage of Brians "New Found Fame" and perhaps release some never
heard material, photos, video etc... after the movie comes out. Maybe
Keith or Mick comes out with a true Biography. It will happen. They took
advantage of Brian then and they will 35 years later!!! Some things,
ladies and gents, never change!!! Anyway that's my prediction. We shall
see later this year. Take care and keep writing those comments!! They
are awesome.
True Brian Fan,
George
Message 83 - Sunday 30th January 2005
I just got the UNCUT issue featuring who killed
Brian Jones on the cover, and see that all this is murder mystery and
intrigue is coming to full boil. I, like many of you, have been a
lifelong fan of Brian's and basically grew up with him as a defining
role model. The image he presented, his photogenic quality, his
dedication to the Blues and R&B, the messages in the Stones lyrics,
Heart of Stone etc. gave us who dared to grow our hair, pick up a
guitar, join a band, defy the establishment, experiment with alternate
lifestyles, dream the ultimate dream of avoiding a mundane existence of
the 9 to 5 workday 30 to 40 years at the same job and retire, retire to
what? It is true, the Stones represented a Lifestyle, not just a band,
and Brian was on Point. Brian led the way. As Bill has stated, Brian had
an image, a persona, long before the rest of them. A sense of style, a
worldliness beyond the other four. His leadership extended beyond just
their musical direction. In the 60,s, image was so very important, to be
in a band, you had to have an image. Look at all the bands in the 60,s
that mimicked Brian's hair. It is true that Brian should be held with
the same esteem as Jimi Hendrix and Jim Morrison and others, not just in
the realm of those who died much too young, before they were fully
realized as Artists, as well as Human Beings, but amongst all Artists,
living and dead. The Rolling Stones music will stand and has stood the
test of time, and the best of it was made in the 60's during Brian's
tenure. Those early hits are some of the best records ever made by
anyone at anytime, and Brian's contribution to those recordings should
be fully appreciated by all music lovers. it is sad to read so many of
these postings where people profess to have no or little knowledge of
Brian, until all this controversy regarding his death started to hit the
fan. His legacy should rightfully be his contribution to the Culture of
the 60's and the Music he contributed, not the tragedy and mystery
surrounding the events of his death. The music business has always had a
dark side to it, gangsters, and organized criminal elements in the
background. There are a lot of possibilities as to what happened who may
have been behind it. An Artist's death can prove to be good for record
sales. I could expound on several scenarios, some of you already have
touched on some, but I would just prefer to say this. I, like many of
you, would like the truth to come out, but just like the Kennedys and
Martin Luther King, I have resigned myself to the fact that we may never
know the whole truth behind any of these murders, and Brian's murder
will probably be no different. It is very naive on Charlie's part to
doubt that anyone would intentionally have Brian killed. If Jagger/Richard
found it necessary to suppress Brian's creativity within the band, and
obviously Jagger was jealous of Brian, it is only natural that they
would extend that into Brian's post Stones activities. The Stones had
many sycophants that bowed down to them constantly telling them how
great they were, Mick Taylor commented on that, and even Keith called
Brian's death "a relief" It is even possible that some of these sorts
would have acted upon these impulses, not necessarily with Mick and
Keith's tacit approval or even knowledge. There are a lot of crazy and
dangerous people around Rock n Roll. I just hope this movie does not
muddy the waters further, and I do truly hope this will shed some light
on Brian in a favourable way (kind of wonder about that since the
producer says himself he doesn't think anyone would have liked Brian )
and will encourage new fans to dig into the music and know Brian for
what he truly was, and that is a great multi-instrumentalist, and true
musical pioneer, possibly the father of world music, and one of the
first, if not the first, pop musician to do a movie soundtrack. Maybe a
Degree Of Murder may enjoy a renaissance and rediscovery. Hopefully all
this attention will be good for Brian.
PS) maybe one way to explain Keith's attitude
towards Brian is that the only way he can deal with his guilt over how
he treated Brian is to just bury him, devalue him to the degree, that in
his mind, Brian didn't matter. How else could he sleep at night. Even he
slugged Anita, so all that about what an arsehole Brian was to her, he
did the same thing. I think back on how it was Brian who told Keith's
mum, it is time to get Keith a real guitar, because Keith is about to
hit the big time. Brian had the vision, the faith that the Stones had
what it took......how 'bout it Keith??
Bryan
Message 84 - Sunday 30th January 2005
Hello Brian fans,
George - I would've liked to had been a fly on the
wall too! On the visa thing - go to the Brian site "like a rolling
stone" where you'll find the listing: "Brian Jones: like a rollin' stone
moderated message board", once there click on the 3rd archived page & go
to the listing: "re:they never intended to pay him" posted by Gerry on
5-19-2004. there you will find what I've read.
I agree with a lot of your post - will have to see
if your prediction is right about the Stones on Brian's new found fame -
do you mean that the stones might start acknowledging Brian's
contributions? There's a record being released of the stones singles
1968-1971(9 CD's) with rare recordings, pics & stuff - It's scheduled
for release on February 28th 2005 (Feb 28th is Brian's 63rd birthday)
hhhmmm..?? On the movie - Brian's profile has been certainly lifted, I
know many of you are concerned that the movie could present Brian in a
bad light but good or bad - any publicity is good as it's bringing Brian
back into the limelight & is raising questions on his death which is
good because the truth needs to come out & history rewritten - there are
other things happening but when the time is right we will all know &
let's just say that this year & forward will be good for Brian legacy -
RIP Brian Jones - you will be having your day soon - just you all wait &
see!
True Brian fan - Kevin.
Message 85 - Monday 31st January 2005
Thank you again Kevin! You did it again! Yes, Brian
founded the Stones, and his death should not be treated as some obscure
nothing!
I bet if it was Keith do you think Mick would be
doing the same thing?Or any of the other Stone members besides Brian? I
want to know what exactly happened to Brian Jones, whatever they can
find no matter how long it takes. I have loved Brian Jones since I was
14 (I graduated High School in 1967) and I want some answers! I may be
the oldest person on this board but I do remember how persecuted Rock
Stars were back then and how hard it was for hippie freak weirdoes to
get ahead when making music for the new generation of young adults.
People were expected to for the most part to solve
their own problems by pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, and
many of them did not even have bootstraps to pull themselves up with. If
you had some kind of emotional, mental, drug, alcohol or stress problem
you were considered weak, and stupid, and a burden to your family and
society as a whole. Seeking help was frowned upon unless it was
absolutely necessary for the above mentioned that is. I hope it wasn't
that way all over the US. I am from the Midwest. But watching TV back in
the 1950's and 1960's you never saw anything like that at all. So Brian
was left more or less to his own devices to help himself, and many times
he did find some doctors who were helping him, but the meds they give
today for what he had are a lot different back then. So when he got that
estate he was away from the pressure and hardship of being ostracized by
the Mick and Keith, (I heard Bill and Mick Taylor and even Charlie had
trouble with submitting songs to be part of the Stones songs) for his
problems. And hopefully this movie will provide some answers to what
happened to this musical genius who founded the group Mick, Keith,
Charlie and Ron and still going strong in that Brian founded, named and
put them in.
Linda Zerr
Message 86 - Monday 31st January 2005
Excited to see the film..... I hope it at least has
a theatre screening in Toronto.
On the topic of Brian's inability to get a visa, I
may be mistaken but I don't know that one needs a visa to just visit for
a stated period, as long as you're not working and making money. His
passport should have got him in as a visitor. Touring bands from outside
the States, though, needed at that time (and may still, not sure)
American work visas to legally sanction their making big revenues while
in America. For some reason, which is further elaborated upon in some of
the books, such as Norman's "The Stones", Jagger and Richards would be
allowed them while Brian would not. That isn't to say the Stones weren't
watched when they did go, but I don't recall being suspicious of that
particular reason he was sacked from the band.
I've read he was very into CCR just before his
death. It would have been interesting to see what sort of music he could
have made. His death was probably the first really striking rock'n roll
tragedy since the Day the Music Died in the late 50s. It's a shame that
it was somewhat eclipsed in the public view by the whirlwind of rock and
roll deaths that followed in the next several years afterwards.
Rob
Message 87 - Monday 31st January 2005
Prescription deaths, many of them.
Dunc
Message 88 - Wednesday 2nd February 2005
When is the film about Brian due for release?
Liz Groves
Message 89 - Sunday 6th February 2005
It's been a while since I've had a chance to get
back on my computer. I'm so glad Brian still has so many fans. I always
get bummed out when I mention him in regards to the Stones and people
haven't heard of him. This is just one example of the uneducated: While
at a Stones concert, not in '81 I think it was a few tours after that,
my friends and I were having a great time, loving every song. And then
it happened. They started playing "Start Me Up," never one of my
favorites, and the moron in front of me commented to his friend, "Now,
this is the real Stones." I wanted to slap the uneducated young fool.
However, I did restrain myself. There are so many Stones fans, that have
never even been exposed to the major contributions that Brian made! It's
amazing. People recognize "Paint it Black" or whatever other song but
don't even know his name when I mention him. It's just so fuckin'
unjust. How can people not know he was the main founder of the Stones!
He was the one pounding the pavement. Mick was still going to school
considering other occupations. Brian was the one who believed in them
100%.
In catching up today on all the latest posts, I
noticed a lot of people are really down on Keith lately. This is
strictly my opinion, but maybe some of you have had something similar
happen to you in your lives. I have 2 brothers. All 3 of us used to get
high together. The youngest brother and I grew bored of smoking pot and
quit. The other brother can't deal with not getting high. It consumed
his life. Still to this day. We'll always love him but we can't relate
to him anymore. We have great memories but that's about it. Some people
just have addictive personalities. Not that Keith is an angel. Just it
seems he handled drugs differently than Brian. Who knows? Maybe Brian
was an ass on drugs. Just like alcohol. One person is a funny drunk and
someone else can be a mean drunk. Perhaps Brian was a mean person on
drugs in addition to not knowing when he'd had enough. Please don't
misunderstand my comments and think I'm bashing Brian in any way. I
don't believe that the Stones would have ever gotten a start if not for
Brian. Now think back to all I'm sure you've read about when Mick and
Keith first met Brian. They were supposedly in "awe" of him. They
totally looked up to him. He had a couple of kids by then. He wasn't
exactly super-dad, but still, as young kids, they thought, Wow, he's all
ready has kids, he's super talented, he's up on stage, where they at
that time only dreamed of being...It was probably just that, a dream.
They probably fantasized about it, but that's it. They probably never
really dreamed it would happen for them in reality. Even though Brian
was a big fish in a small pond, to Mick and Keith, that was what they
could only hope for. Anyway, back to the point of what I was getting at
a second ago, it's horrible to see someone you idolized, respected,
looked up to go down that road. Keith is brutally honest. I think the
negative comments he has made about Brian are all comments regarding the
last couple of years of Brians life. I have read in several different
places where Keith praises Brian for his ability to pick up any
instrument and be able to play it within a few hours or so. I'm sure he
has plenty of guilt about the whole Anita thing, but by then, Brian had
gone from busting his ass to get them noticed and get them gigs to being
drugged out to the point that his hero had fallen from grace. It sucks
when you're a young kid, (early 20's) and you have to face reality that
someone you looked up to, maybe even wished to be, isn't that person
anymore. That said, I love Brian and feel he was a naturally gifted
musician. The Stones would not exist if it weren't for Brian. But don't
judge Keith too harshly. Who knows what it's really like to have walked
in his shoes?
Erin
Message 90 - Sunday 6th February 2005
The reason why so many people here have been harsh
on Keith is because he continues to badmouth Brian to this day. Many of
his comments have been incredibly rude. On top of that, Keith has never
really given Brian credit for anything, not even forming the band! Once
in a blue moon, he has complimented Brian's musical abilities. Big deal.
The guy has been a complete asshole to Brian and most of us can't
forgive him for that. Keith has shown no class as he has continued to
piss on his old bandmate's memory. With this cold treatment from Keith
and the other Stones, it's no wonder why so many younger Stones fans
don't know a thing about Brian Jones (other than he was found dead in a
swimming pool) . . .
Moe
Message 91 - Sunday 6th February 2005
Possibly Keith is the inside informant who tipped
off The News of The World and made these hoax calls which resulted in
Brian's harassment by police & the media in the late 60s? It was someone
inside the stones camp who wanted Brian out. To this day Keith tries to
say Brian deserved his death and had it coming. And Linda Keith, former
girlfriend of Keith and Brian, pulls this stunt at his flat, tipped off
again with the media. Who was behind that one? Andrew recently tried to
say in UNCUT that Brian had a death wish; more like a premonition of his
own death. That's quite different than wanting to die. Now Wooley's
movie is trying to make it seem Brian was asking for it in the end.
Seems like Keith, Andrew and Wooley are all in cahoots. Very suspicious
indeed, all the wrong people consulting on it too. No wonder this film
is going ahead.
Brian Fan #666
Message 92 - Monday 7th February 2005
Not been on the forum in ages, and am disgusted at
the lack of progress regarding theories surrounding the death of Brian.
Erin, Kevin and Miss U, what are you on???? according to you Brian was
off DRUGS at the time of his death??? I THINK YOU THREE MUST BE ON DRUGS
TO COME OUT WITH A STATEMENT LIKE THAT.
And all you Brian fans worrying about if you will
get to see the film?? OF COURSE YOU WILL, IT WILL GO STRAIGHT TO
DVD/VIDEO AFTER BOMBING AT THE BOX OFFICE.
WHATEVER MAN....................
Gary Wilson
Message 93 - Monday 7th February 2005
Very well put msg # 90. Keith's jealousy &
insecurity usually come out more often than not when he opens his mouth
about Brian. Yet so many make excuses for Keith; it's inexcusable and I
guess he'll only find that out on judgement day. And you raised a valid
point....in my case, I had been a stone fan for approx 15 years before I
took any interest in Brian (after reading Anna Wohlin's book), and that
is because I had believed all the myths and bad comments I had
previously read about Brian so why bother to learn more. Andrew was a
bit of a rival with Brian over control of the band matters also since in
the early days it was Brian who did all the promoting, and I think Brian
had a hard time relinquishing his control of managing the band to ALO,
plus the personality clash. Brian was like the "oddball" of the band,
but then again all the band members are different from each other, and
like Wyman has said it's their differences that created the chemistry.
I just finished reading UNCUT, and I think it's an
excellent, very balanced article! I was surprised though, that they
didn't mention how Janet Lawson attempted to conceal her pregnancy,
which affected her police statement about what happened July 2nd, and
now she is contradicting her version of events for this movie.....which
seriously casts doubts on her loyalties and credibility.
I was also surprised there was no mention that
before Brian died he was expecting a large sum of money as his severance
for leaving the stones. There also seemed to be this placing blame
squarely on ALO, at the expense of laying blame on the stones themselves
for their role. On the whole, though, excellent, and I liked how they
mentioned Brian had been emasculated within the stones, which led to his
debauchery outside the stones, and the vicious circle that his treatment
within the stones led to his drinking/pill popping, which in turn led to
his losing even more a role within the band, worse relations, more
paranoia and insecurity. And that his relationship with Anita was very
troubled, not just from his end. They omitted how Anita had planned on
leaving him prior to the Morocco incident. They mentioned how Suki was
very important to Brian? I guess in terms of emotional support over his
loss of Anita.
Miss U.
Message 94 - Monday 7th February 2005
Hiya BJFC, haven't been here for about a month but
I found this on Audley Films' website about the movie. Audley films are
the company that are responsible for the budget etc:
With a budget of £6.2million Audley are fully
responsible for financing this production. The filming has now been
completed and is currently in post production. There will be a promo and
selected scenes shown at the Berlin film festival and it's World
Premiere will be at Cannes film festival 2005.
So hopefully after the world premiere we will
finally be able to see it. I can't wait
Clive
Message 95 - Tuesday 8th February 2005
Has Keith really said "Brian had it coming, or that
he's glad Brian's dead?" I have not heard or read of him saying that. If
that's true, that's very sad indeed. I do know that someone mentioned
Him saying John died by the gun and George by the knife or something
like that. I believe these comments are harsh. However he has elaborated
so many times about John and George, how great they were, how shitty it
is that they're gone, etc...
On his own website, he elaborates a great deal
about both of them. As I mentioned earlier, perhaps after taking Anita
and sacking Brian he has guilt that he'll never be able to come to terms
with. It was after Brian's death that he became such a heroin addict. He
has even said he want into this knowingly as he needed a buffer from all
that was going on. I believe that Brian should be as well known as Jimi
Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, etc. It is so wrong that he's not.
I'm very much looking forward to this movie. Even if it just introduces
a new theory that nobody has previously considered, how could it be
anything but helpful? Even if there was only 1 different scenario that
had not been discovered, how wonderful to see a new angle to try to
solve this from! Brian deserves justice! And Gary - if you're so down on
this project before anyone has ever even seen it, before the projects
even complete, why are you still here? Your comments are not helpful,
just rude.
Erin
Message 96 - Wednesday 9th February 2005
Has anyone read the update in Uncut this month
???????
Terry Rawlings now claims that Brian's driver Joan
Fitzsimmons was present on the fateful night, and was blinded a few days
later in Chichester, presumably to warn her from naming names.
Dunc
Message 97 - Monday 14th February 2005
I don't buy this gobbledegook that Keith felt so
"guilty" over Brian's death that he took up drugs. That is enabling kr
to keep on trashing Brian. For one thing, Keith & Anita & Marianne were
already dabbling in horse; that was the thoughtful gift Keith brought
over the nite they canned Brian, and he got sick all nite. Rock n roll
circus shows a very wasted Keith, and Hyde Park shows a wasted and very
happy Keith. Maybe if Keith feels so much guilt after all this time, he
should seek therapy.
Brian Fan #666
Message 98 - Tuesday 15th February 2005
Any ideas where the master tapes of Brian's "A
Degree of Murder" are kept ? Now this should be remixed and released as
Brian's solo album.
It's supposed to have Jimmy Page and other great
session musicians on it.
Keith Dion
Message 99 - Saturday 19th February 2005
Question - are we supposed to forget all about that
theory floating around that there was a hit on Brian, and that is the
reason the flood lights were installed over the pool?
One thing about the UNCUT mag - I wish they had
been a bit kinder in what they said about Dawn Molloy.... and there is a
misconception out there about her motives. She is a very nice sensitive
woman, she went thru a lot back then, and she was very happy to have
found her son again years ago.
Miss U.
Message 100 - Sunday 20th February 2005
Hello! I had no idea that Dawn Malloy had found her
son years ago. I had been under the impression she kept and raised him.
Frank Thorogood was solely responsible for Brian's demise. And possibly
any one that helped him in his schemes. In my opinion, Frank had this
construction company as a front for illegal activities. He as a hood,
racketeer, con artist and one who stole from his employers and exploited
anyone he felt he could. No one hired Frank or anyone else to do the
deed he did with Brian. Brian was no threat to the Stones when he left
the group. It would always be his word against theirs anyway.
I also read the Stones thought Brian should leave because they were
going on tour soon and were afraid Brian would not live if he would
start the tour due to his physical and mental condition at that time.
For all of us Die-Hard dedicated Brian Jones fans, let us all hope this
movie will definitely shed some light on what happened to him that night
way back in July1969. Brian died the day close to my 20th birthday.
(July 4th) I remember reading about it very clearly.
Perhaps this movie will tell the truth.
Linda Zerr
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