The Death of Brian Jones

The Wild and Wycked World of Brian Jones

Please note, the following comments are not necessarily representative of the views of the Brian Jones Fan Club Editorial Team but are reproduced here primarily to generate a forum for discussion. No message reproduced below has been censored or altered in any way from the original message received.

Forum - The Death of Brian Jones

Message 1 - Friday 18th June 2004

Having read most of the books available on Brian Jones, and also John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Keith Moon, too name but a few, I would like to give my own version of the reasons for the death of Brian Jones. Firstly, I think Frank Thorogood was directly responsible for arranging the drowning using some of the workers he had in his employ.

Secondly and more importantly, I now believe that the Rolling Stones not only were aware of the murder but in fact had been involved in the arrangement of certain circumstances leading to the murder, the strongest link to the murder that involves the Stones is of course Tom Keylock, who was not only there on the night but who used money to pay Frank Thorogood and the other workers to carry out the murder, the money in question was off course from the Stones themselves.

The reasons behind the murder are clear and there for all to see, Brian was too much of a threat to the stone's popularity at a time when "super groups "were forming, also the large amount of money Brian had negotiated as part of his severance pay, most accounts say £100,000 a year, he was in fact due his first payment of this shortly before his death.

Don't forget that it was only 3 weeks after his departure from the band that his drowning occurred, this also points to the fact that now he had split from the stones he was in fact regarded as "Baggage" and a threat to the stones should his proposed band form.

I would like to end my views on his death with this.

There is no way that Brian Jones would have been allowed to have been killed if the stones or their management not instructed it, heads would have rolled for sure if indeed as they claim it WAS accidental, the stones were untouchable and the two men that were there to guarantee they were untouchable were there on the night he died, there fore the finger must point to Tom Keylock and Frank Thorogood under the instruction of the Stones and the management to dispose of him, the ghastly act of burning his possessions and emptying his house hours after his death only cements my belief in this.

Thanks for your time.

Gary Wilson

Message 2 - Saturday 19th June 2004

To Mr Woolley, Please whatever you can do speak the truth. I also believe he was murdered. This must be reinvestigated so people will believe that Brian died not by his own hands, or under the influence. This movie sounds very interesting. I hope he names (if possible) of the people who were there besides Janet, Anna and Frank. It absolutely sickens me to think that Brian could be alive today if it wasn't for Frank or anyone else who was involved had just left Brian alone.

Linda Zerr

Member 1261

St Louis Missouri USA

Message 3 - Saturday 19th June 2004

Let me begin by saying I am happy that a film about the circumstances of Brian's death is finally happening. The only concerns I have is that although Frank Thorogood most likely is directly involved in the murder, there were others there that night as well that may have witnessed and/or participated in the drowning. It is not enough to only label Thorogood as the killer if others were involved. It is also a shame that Brian's friends have not come forward to tell what they saw or know. Anna Wohlin knows who else was there and failed in her book to tell the whole truth. I hope the film reflects this as I can not let myself believe there was only Brian, Thorogood, Lawson and Wohlin at the house that night. My other concern is the Thorogood family. If I understand correctly, they threatened a lawsuit regarding the so called death bed confession to Tom Keylock. Has the Thorogood family been consulted on the film or do they even have to be? Once again in a nutshell, I concur with the film BUT hope that it shows there were others there that night so that if any investigation happens as a result of the film, the others will no escape justice!

Name withheld

Message 4 - Monday 21st June 2004

I am a nephew of Frank Thorogood and have been helping Trevor, the editor of this Fan Club and website for some time in an attempt to establish the truth. I have not used this as a mechanism to clear Frank's name but to clarify some very important incorrect allegations.

I would like to point out that there WAS NO deathbed confession since it was NOT cancer that Frank was slowly dying of and in fact Frank died unexpectedly very soon after being admitted to hospital. So he neither knew he was on his death bed nor was there time for a confession. The other important incorrect issue surrounds money. Frank lived a very humble lifestyle. He lived in a council flat and did not even own a car. There really never was any money to splash around. If he did it, it wasn't for money and nor did he confess to doing it. I am not saying he was not involved in some way - he may have been, he may not, BUT it really is important to make sure that allegations can be substantiated before being solely relied upon.

And thank you to the unknown author of Message 3 for considering Franks family and NO it has not been consulted by the makers of the film.

Mark Lyne

Message 5 - Monday 21st June 2004

I am personally absolutely 100% sure Brian Jones was murdered and I am absolutely sure that Mick Jagger and Keith Richards knew that. Anyone with half a grain of common sense can see that from the facts. The band was mixing with hard rough characters. Why did they burn Brian Jones possessions? Why was he kicked out of band only a short time before his death? Was it not Keith Richards (who had previously used these builders and complained about them) that suggested these builders work on Jones’ house. Why did Jagger and Richard's not go to the funeral?

Personally I think the lot of them should be hauled up in front of a court. Murder is murder and someone has lost their life. To think they Lord it up now without any regard for the very person who created the band in the first place and gave it the name!! Bring on the court case and haul those over paid, pompous egomaniacs into the legal system.

The Stones made themselves famous in those early years and without Brian Jones, where would they be? He was the one that created all those wonderful sounds such as the Sitar on Paint It Black and all the other extra sounds that set them aside from other bands. Sorry Richard's....he was far more talented then you! Crazy thing is, is that when the new film comes out, it will probably mean better record sales for The Stones and they will benefit, even though they should be begging for forgiveness. Still.....they are getting old now and I am sure they think about it and I bet when they near the Purley Gates themselves they will beg for forgiveness!

Name withheld

Message 6 - Monday 21st June 2004

I concur with many of the fans comments regarding implicating the Stones and their management in the death of Brian Jones - they certainly had the strongest motive. Having read just about every book on the rolling stones including every single biography on Brian Jones it appears obvious to me the singular jealousy emanating from the Jagger and Richards camp which would explain their constant unease and defensiveness over any issue associated with Brian to this day. Burning his valuable clothes and possessions on the night of his death is odd and strikes me as an attempt to not only destroy the man himself but his image too and who else would gain from this? I have footage of Jagger confessing that the stones did not treat Brian right and one wonders how deep this maltreatment went. I am also concerned about the negative language associated with the film regarding Brian i.e. "nasty little shit" and "monster". I personally find this offensive. No one has ever claimed Brian was an "angel" but having said that artistic types are notoriously moody, misconstrued and more sinned against than sinning and I feel this definitely applies to BJ. Fame and fortune often bring out very negative traits in human nature from those surrounding stars and it saddens me that to this day he is still being heavily slandered for being mortal. I therefore worry that this film will be biased towards the negative for pure shock factors and will do BJ an injustice. I also feel a lot of Brian's problems were caused by his intense sexual attraction to both sexes and the complications which arise from this in human relations and I have yet to see an actor good looking enough to accurately portray this catalystic and very important factor.

Zoe

Message 7 - Monday 21st June 2004

I also think Brian was murdered. It's a good thing that maybe the truth will come out now. Let the world know!!!!!!!!!

Name withheld

Message 8 - Monday 21st June 2004

Off course Brian was murdered! Tell the world the truth! Don’t let the murderer get away with it! Even if it's been so many years ago!

Name withheld

Message 9 - Tuesday 22nd June 2004

Wow…. well glad about all of this, but if they do hang it all on one guy, that's kind of strange.... especially in light of the below comments. Frank did NOT have cancer? was not on his deathbed... I mean I'm not discounting that he can be the sole killer but it would be foolish to base a money making story/movie on just that situation. Giving that dubious old shit face Keylock money again: this guy has made money off the stones during the 60s and is at it again???? Woolley hopefully knows what he's doing and will deal with these old bastards (and bitches meaning that 'in hiding' Lawson psycho), so that they can implement themselves. If more IS to be found out, hopefully the picture can open that all up. Personally I wouldn't think the Stones were involved, and if so, maybe Mick, who was tres weird in that time period…. but not Keith. Read the Sanchez book. The money amounts differ wildly, and are higher, and Keith questions the whereabouts of Keylock as Jagger does not?

Hmmmmm...... Godspeed to this project, and hopefully the world will know that it was Brian’s DEATH that was a tragedy, and NOT HIS LIFE!!!!!!!

Roxanne

Message 10 - Tuesday 22nd June 2004

I don't know what to make of this film. If Steve Woolley has any kind of proof, than why doesn't he go to the police first? Why is he insisting that the police will reopen the case after the movie is released?

I find it ironic that the movie is going to be based on Terry Rawling’s ‘Who Killed Christopher Robin? The Truth Behind the Murder of a Rolling Stone’. I happen to be very good friends with Terry Rawlings and he has told me on more than a few occasions that he thinks Brian’s death was UNINTENTIONAL, and that his it was caused by too much drugs and alcohol. Why Terry doesn’t say this publicly I don’t know. I guess money and fooling all of Brian’s fans is more important than the truth. What his book should be called is ‘I Don't Know Who Killed Christopher Robin: The Truth Behind the Accident of a Rolling Stone’.

Rob Weingartner

Staten Island, New York

Message 11 - Wednesday 23rd June 2004

I do not think Brian was murdered. I have never heard a convincing reason for motive. Manslaughter is a possibility. That's why I am interested in seeing this case re-opened. If there was no foul play, many people with no particular interest in the matter owe Frank Thorogood an (posthumous) apology.

Martin Dunne

Message 12 - Wednesday 23rd June 2004

When considering Brian Jones, there are two undeniable truths:

1) He was an outstanding swimmer

2) It took more than a few drinks to get him drunk.

The autopsy concluded he had consumed several drinks and small traces of a drug that had passed through his system prior to that evening. In other words, he wasn't under the drug's influence. To be honest, Brian was an experienced drinker and probably an alcoholic, and as such he couldn't have been drunk having had so few drinks despite Ms. Lawson's testimony.

Brian was asthmatic, yet the autopsy concluded there was no asthma attack.

So you're going to tell me he died by "misadventure"? Sorry, I don't buy that. Anyone who studies this case knows that is bullshit.

The entire evening is shrouded in mystery and may always be. Despite the widespread criticism of Anna Wohlin's book, I found it quite revealing. Frank Thorogood may or may not have killed Brian, but Wohlin among others confirms there was deep resentment by him towards Brian. Regardless of how one views her credibility, she and Ms. Lawson are the only two known living people to have been at Cotchford Farm that evening and Wohlin was with him during his last days.

That brings us to Ms. Lawson. Does anyone know where she is? Any legit investigation should include her to say the least. Her silence on this matter is very curious to me and her testimony conflicts with Wohlin's. Being Thorogood's lover, he may have confided some interesting details to her (then again he may not have) and people who have nothing to hide are usually very revealing of facts. It is as if she disappeared into thin air.

The Stones having Brian killed seems a much less plausible theory comparing to Thorogood and/or the workmen at Cotchford. Why kill him? They considered him a waste case and having him out of the band was exactly what they (and he) wanted. If they were worried about him forming a super-group, would that prompt them to kill him? The Who outshined them in 'Rock n' Roll Circus" according to Jagger, but they didn't have Roger Daltry snuffed. There was plenty of competition for The Stones at that point, and though they have been callous towards Jones, there simply is not any credible evidence to suggest premeditated murder. Having to pay him his requested sum for leaving was on paper. Would killing him stop the money from going to his family? Besides, between then and now, someone would have undergone a religious conversion and come clean. That many people keeping it a secret just isn't realistic.

Anyway, I'm convinced someone did him in and I hope the case is re-opened and very seriously investigated. Anyone who would like to discuss the case in more detail is welcomed to email me. I'd like to hear from you.

Best Regards,

Richard Smith

Message 13 - Wednesday 23rd June 2004

I thought I read Frank died of a heroin OD?

Anonymous

Message 14 - Thursday 24th June 2004

I would like to respond to Roxanne's comments (Message 9). I agree with you're comments (although perhaps not in your choice of words) about Mr Keylock. He certainly is always out to make money and I'm sure that is why he made up the deathbed confession story. I can tell you that Keylock attended Frank's funeral with a so-called 'friend' who quizzed much of the family about Frank. It later turned out that he was a journalist hired by Keylock to help him write his book - another money making venture and quite upsetting for the family.

Mark Lyne

Message 15 - Thursday 24th June 2004

I think that the first message, by Mr Wilson, is right on the money. The story of Thorogood has been around a long time. It was in so many ways a "good idea" for the Stones to want to off Brian: they could exploit his death and close the chapter at the same time. Mick obviously absorbed much of Brian's persona, as Mick was never consuming the substances he claimed he was, or sleeping with the women that Brian had -- these are pretty shallow things, but you get the point. You can't fake something when the real thing is there. I don't believe all the Stones were in on it, but Mick and Keith.... this was not a pre-arranged thing by the Stones, but they took advantage of a situation as it presented itself. They'd been on him for a long time before he died...how far can you take resentment?? This is what it seems to stem from. They continue to bash Brian to this day, and want to belittle any contribution he made -- yet, for instance, they kept in contact with 2 of his children, Mick especially. Why? The bashing is really petty at this point, give credit where credit is due and leave Brian alone; he can't possibly be a threat to them now. Enough already!!

Mick and his ego..... I believe Keith eventually got wind that he had been hung out to dry during the Seventies (hence the feud between Mick and Keith) exploiting every detail of his addictions in the hopes that.....hey, it wouldn't have come as much of a surprise if he had died, would it?? Get another, better, younger, reliable guitar player to keep up with all those younger bands, while exploiting yet another death, and then bashing Keith if anyone should try to remember him fondly. Seems there's a trend here. You don't stay on top of the game for this long without having to get your hands really dirty once in a while. The Stones have been dirty for a long time. Mick and Keith should come clean.

Name withheld

Message 16 - Thursday 24th June 2004

"It was actually a relief after Brian died" = Keith.

Tres weird indeed.

"No one leaves this band except in a pine box" = Keith again.

Anonymous

Message 17 - Saturday 26th June 2004

I suggest everyone here who hasn't already done so checks out the postings on the Brian Jones: Like A Rolling Stone (LARS) message board where this subject has been aired extensively and there was some particularly informative postings a few months back.

I for one have long regarded the recurring story of Frank Thorogood doing it as suspect. How convenient to pin it on a dead guy who was there that night. Likewise, suspicions that the Stones themselves arranged it are, to me, also suspect. The man holding the purse strings at the time and therefore had to pay out the settlement was Allen Klein, not the Stones - and the money was due to be paid to Brian on 3rd July 1969. You could hire assassins for a lot less money - and then never have to pay out another penny. There's a posting on BJ: LARS from a guy who met someone who worked in Klein's office and told how all the older staff there knew all about Klein arranging Brian's death - so he could get his hands on an extra piece of the Stones, over and above what he already had (and still has).

I'm all for having the truth come out but I too wonder about Mr Woolley's claims to have the truth especially given who his 'consultants' have been - and who haven't been consulted. Why not simply go straight to the police with it? I guess he's got to raise the money to make his movie first, right? I start to wonder if Klein isn't paying Woolley to keep a big lie going!

Janet

Message 18 - Saturday 26th June 2004

It is hard to tell Here and Now, what really happened that night at Brian's place. Even if there is something like the truth, it is hardly to be found in this "murder"-case. I wouldn't stick my hand into the fire for statements made by people like Thorogood, Keylock or Wohlin. What is more interesting in my opinion is the way some organisations involved, like the Sussex police and the Rolling Stones Management, did react or should we say did not react. People with that much power could have brought the truth forward way back in 1969...if they had wanted to.

I think we are trying to hard to blame individuals, when in fact it looks like big organisations are involved to cover things up. I wish Woolley had made a documentary on The Rolling Stones Organisation as it was in the late sixties, rather than the now to be screened "Frank Thorogood's I Did IT'.

Diderik Groen

Message 19 - Monday 28th June 2004

Yes, I hope all of this is followed up on, both with this movie idea and any subsequent investigations. We simply do not know the truth of what happened that night, another case where the "official verdict" is sadly lacking!

I am aware of F. Thorogood's "confession", but have heard enough to be sceptical on that score, I don't necessarily believe in it. Here's a strong vote that the movie/other investigations will go far beyond anything Mr. Thorogood may have said.

I believe it possible, though unlikely, that Brian died accidentally. We know he had nearly destroyed himself by then, his brain, heart, and liver (at least) were in much compromised shape and he was no longer physically strong. His body may have just given out. Or perhaps, in his depression, he more or less "allowed" this to happen - one gulp of water, beginning to sink, then just going with it - "oh, I may die here, that's one thing I haven't done yet".

But that is my secondary belief. I do suspect foul play, there are too many factors: the sudden clearing out, the clothes bonfire, etc. And No One is in the clear, and that includes the Stones management and Mick & Keith themselves. After 35 years, that they still only comment on him with jealousy, disdain and revisionist history (Brian always denigrated, M & K taking all credit) speaks volumes. They consistently act (Keith mainly) like they've something to hide. And yes, there was the money owed him and the threat of a new, competing "super-group". Jagger, Richards, Keylock, Thorogood - none of them are to be trusted on this subject!

I do also think it somewhat possible that Brian died in a case of horseplay (with more than an edge, malignant), more or less "accidentally".

I've fretted over this for 35 years! And have wondered when will there ever be a movie on Brian, or a re-opening of the case.

Yes, please, anyone and everyone, please continue to follow up, let's have the movie, continue to apply pressure on the powers that be, do all we can to get at the truth. Brian was the hero of my adolescence and I still miss him, think of him often.

I do doubt that we will ever know what really happened around midnight on July 2/3, 1969, to be honest.

Jim Lail

Austin, TX

Message 20 - Tuesday 29th June 2004

Everyone here makes valid points -- Frank Thorogood had a row with Brian over money, allegedly. The Stones resented Brian for so many petty, jealous reasons, and that continues to this day, and lastly, someone mentioned another name -- Allen Klein -- good god, Brian didn't stand a chance!! Someone else who is DEFINITELY involved in this, and if you've read any of the number of the Stones biographies his name pops up a lot in connection to shady dealings with the Stones -- Mr Tom Keylock. In the book, "The Rolling Stones: The First 20 Years" by David Dalton, there is an interview with Anita by David Dalton called "Anita on Brian".... very interesting stuff.

I'd bet my last buck that Mick Jagger has known for a long time what happened to Brian. Ego and power are such awful motivations and that sums up Mick pretty accurately. The Stones have always associated with the shadiest of people, and in turn were used by these people for their own agendas. Kenneth Anger and Satanism, heroin dealers had the best salesmen going at the time, the Stones. On and on. Great music, but very shaky, ultimately stupid people. It's not hard to fathom that events were engineered and a certain ball was pushed to roll in a certain direction where Brian's life was concerned. There were too many who would benefit from his death. I feel bad for Brian, by all accounts, he could be nasty and this and that, but there are lots of less than nice people in the entertainment business. He DID make a huge contribution to popular music, in so many ways, and it's unfair that he was snuffed, and then vilified, by the very people who made their way because of him. Pathetic.

Just own up, Mick, the jig is definitely up. Without Brian, there is no Mick -- we all know that. We've always known that. You'll do no time or lose any of your precious money. Bastard. 20 years later and Mick records the musicians at Jajouka for the "Steel Wheels" album. Brilliant, Mick. No one would EVER associate that with Brian, would they?? Do you still provide for his children?? Coward. Brian still "owns" you, eh?

Name withheld

Message 21 - Tuesday 29th June 2004

Anyone who places all blame on Mick is just misplacing their anger.

Anonymous

Message 22 - Thursday 1st July 2004

Mr. Jones case should have been investigated a long time ago. There are a lot of facts that were swept under the rug. This film might help the long overdue truth that was denied such a talented and gifted soul.

Brian may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.

Name withheld

Message 22 - Thursday 1st July 2004

Mr. Jones case should have been investigated a long time ago. There are a lot of facts that were swept under the rug. This film might help the long overdue truth that was denied such a talented and gifted soul.

Brian may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.

Name withheld

Message 23 - Saturday 3rd July 2004

Rest in peace, Brian.

Miss U

Message 24 - Sunday 4th July 2004

On the movie about Brian - Yes it should come out - LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD! As Brian deserves nothing less!!! Why was Brian’s clothes burned? Who got Brian's possessions & guitars from Cotchford when he died? Wasn't Brian's death investigated by the stones management? What happened to Brian's tapes? On Brian: It was Brian who started the stones, named the stones and was the spirit behind the stones which is why the stones are still popular & that's because of Brian! The stones should give Brian credit each time they go on stage! The stones were the first bad boys of rock & it was Brian who was the first "real" bad boy of rock - Brian had the looks, stage presence & talent! Brian was & always will be the coolest rock-star! Brian was for real! & he was very a nice soft spoken gentle person & is truly admired & will never be forgotten. God bless all of you - Brian fans who go to Brian's grave & pay respect & for the Brian Jones Fan Club. God bless Pat Andrews - it moved me to tears when you spoke so highly of Brian on the A&E biography of Mick Jagger - Thank you! After the movie comes out, hopefully the TRUTH will be investigated & told. The stones should have a tour in honor of Brian & go to Brian's grave & say "this one's for you Brian" (film it) & show the film at the beginning of each show - the fans would be moved & cheering! As it would be the right thing to do as Brian deserves to be remembered!

From a true fan.

Name withheld

Message 25 - Sunday 4th July 2004

I do not have enough facts to judge exactly who or why Brian died. But some research does suggest that Mick, Keith and especially Allen Klein had motivation to get rid of Brian. The main thing that I want to say is that it’s great to see all this activity on Brian life exactly 35 years after his death on this and several other web sites. Its very sad how much time has passed in all our lives and it seems almost like yesterday with the news of his demise and now 35 years have already passed on.......Brian truly was the founding member and with his unique mystique about him; lead the Stones as they would have never gone without him. His unique sense of music & instruments gave the Stones that different look and sound that made them the most unique rock band ever. I truly hope this movie and investigation does lead to the real reason of his death/murder and if guilty; they finally pay for it. Let's keep Brian’s special life and memory alive..........!

Mike B.

La Crosse Wisconsin

Message 26 - Sunday 4th July 2004

I always think of Brian over the 4th of July holiday, so I thought I'd check out this site. I figured there would be some interesting exchanges going on, but I wasn't quite prepared for this.

Having met Brian in 1964, I instantly became a huge fan of both Brian and the other Rolling Stones, and was very, very sad when Brian passed away. Regarding his death: If there was foul play involved, I would not be surprised, but I'm not a big conspiracy guy. People who take drugs and alcohol over long periods of time do sometimes just die. Their body just gives out, and that's probably what happened. I'm still a Brian Jones fan, and believing there was more to his death does not make me a bigger or better fan. And thinking that Mick or Keith had anything to do with it is totally idiotic. Come on guys. Hating Mick and Keith seems really stupid. You should spend more energy listening to Brian's wonderful input to the early Stones records. The music and memories are what lives on.

Tom Dickie

Message 27 - Sunday 4th July 2004

I think it's wonderful and quite unprecedented on the internet to have this un-moderated forum where people can freely speak their minds in a healthy manner, as opposed to just spewing venom at the stones.

Brian will always be remembered, this movie will get young people interested in finding out about Brian, and I thank the Stones for remembering Brian over the years by flashing his pics at concerts and their tribute in the 40 Licks CD, not to mention everything Bill Wyman has done for Brian's memory and to give him credit in Stone Alone and Rolling With The Stones. Of course more could be publicly done by the Stones in his memory, but nothing will bring Brian back. Let his music speak for him. That was his legacy.

Anonymous

Message 28 - Monday 5th July 2004

Hello to all Brian Jones fans.

Following up from my earlier email of 18th June. I would like to add a bit more on the subject.

I would like to clarify that Fran Thorogood was PARTLY responsible for what happened to Brian, what I mean by that is Frank was working for Rolling Stones inc, his job involved not only working as builder for Brian but also running errands for him such as going for furniture and also cooking for him on occasion, Frank was also to keep an eye on Brian or look out for him if you like. Brian was fond of his parties and would bring back all sorts from the "Haywaggon pub" frank would ensure Brian was safe from hangers on etc. this is very important as when you consider what happened to Brian you begin to realise that no harm could have came to Brian without Franks say so, HOWEVER Frank would not harm Brian unless Tom Keylock knew about it, that much is clear.

I feel I have to mention the film, although it is a good thing the film is being made, I don't think it will go as far as naming and shaming the people there on the night. I would not hope for too much from the film folks, at the end of the day the film is there to make money, and if they were to tell the real facts there would be law suits from all the people involved.

The people we know were there and who have not come forward with the whole story are

1. Anna Wohlin, book is full of flaws, basic story correct but misses out too many people.

2. Tom Keylock, denies being there until around 3am, he was there.

3. Nicholas Fitzgerald. Why has he stayed so quiet, he is an eye witness in my book.

4. Janet Lawson, as above.

5. Frank Thorogood. Now sadly dead, but has kept quiet under Stone’s orders.

6. Elan, in the country illegally at the time but there on the night, where is he now? His story would make a better story than the film I bet.

7. Suki Potier, sadly deceased, she knew what happened to Brian, although not there on the night.

8. The regular builders/labourers that Frank used, these guys helped on the night.

I will obviously look forward to the film, but honestly do not think we will ever find out who held Brian under the water that night.

We can talk and swap stories but unless Tom Keylock comes clean about Frank we will never know, What a coward he is blaming it all on Frank. His own deathbed confession should be a good one?

I forgot Joan Fitzsimons, what about her story, any one got any info on her????, She was supposed to have taxied everyone who was at the party that night away.

A keen guitar player myself I often wonder who has Brian’s guitars????? Any one got any information on this?? They would not have been able or wanted to burn these? Has Brian’s family any of his belongings?

Too many unanswered questions Guys. Thanks for reading

Gary

p.s. I would like to clarify that Brian Jones had the most basic autopsy imaginable, His internal organs were all fine for his age, there was some fatty degeneration of the liver, but this would or does not kill you suddenly, he was in good health.

Message 29 - Monday 5th July 2004

In response to message # 28 from Gary - Yes Brian was in good heath when he died, it's been said that Brian was a very strong man at his autopsy. Playing guitar myself, I too have wondered about what happened to Brian’s guitars - Brian used his white Vox Teardrop guitar up thru 65 & Brian started using a sunburst Gibson Firebird VII around May 65 thru 66. Brian also started using a non reverse Firebird in 66 onward. The white Vox Teardrop guitar could be seen at the Hardrock cafe in New York City (USA) in the 80’s (probably still is there?) I've seen a pic of the Goldtop Les Paul in a display (Brian played it at the rock & roll circus)-where's that at? What happened to the reverse Firebird that you see Brian playing slide on no expectations at the rock & roll circus? What about Brian's Gretches, Epiphones? Did Brian own or play a blue Fender Stratocaster? A guy said that it's at a Hardrock cafe in the southeast (like New Orleans or Florida) USA? Again where are all of Brian's guitars & who got them & who sold them thru auction places?

Name withheld

Message 30 - Monday 5th July 2004

Some good points, Gary and #29.

Joan ended up in the hospital, beaten to silence. Not sure if she's still alive.

Keith has some of Brian's guitars. Shouldn't those guitars go to his kids or his parents? Most of his belongings were supposedly "burnt" in the fire, more likely stolen. I do know for a fact that Tom Keylock has sold some of Brian's items to stones fans. Some of Brian's items have also appeared at auctions over the years.

The movie is naming Frank as being involved in Brian's death, but I heard before that Frank's family was threatening to sue if they name him as the killer..? Maybe the movie can get away with it by branding itself as entertainment based on some facts....not a bio or documentary but not total fiction either..."a murder mystery."

Also heard a rumour that Tom Keylock is writing a book on his experiences with the stones. Not sure if that's true or not. Maybe there's a good reason the stones got rid of Keylock. Keep in mind the stones organization is not the same as the stones.

Miss U

Message 31 - Friday 9th July 2004

Although “Biopics” reached their hey-day of popularity in the 1930s, they are still prominent to this day. 'Biopics' being a term derived from the combination of the words "biography" and "pictures." These films depict and dramatize the life of an important person (or group) from the past or present era sometimes stretching the truth with varying degrees of accuracy. More successful biopics which spring to mind are Dustin Hoffman as “Lenny”, Denzel Washington as “Malcolm X” and Russell Crowe in “A Beautiful Mind”. The secret of success is credible acting, thorough research and to base the biopic on truth and fact which is why there are countless more disasters than successes, Carroll Baker as “Harlow”, Rudolph Nureyev as “Valentino” to name a couple.

I am a big believer that if you are going to tell the story then you should have the decency to get it right and being a Rolling Stones fan I first became interested in the Brian Jones movie when I heard many years ago that Brad Pitt had been approached to play the Sixties icon in a biopic being produced by Scala Pictures.

Here we are some 9 years later with Paul Bettany and now Tom Hardy all having been supposedly in line to play Brian. That’s 9 years of Scala touting the script at the Cannes Film Festival (without any sign of a backer) and the same article released to the media every year with a different name in the frame to generate interest. So quite whether this latest prediction of “filming to start later this year” will happen is anybody’s guess.

As a freelance reporter for many years my curiosity was initially aroused as to why international celebrity Brad Pitt would want to play a dead rock star, if he ever did, but then the last few years of looking at the life and more importantly the death of Brian Jones have given me an insight in to what could, if the truth is allowed to prevail, be a major blockbuster.

It would appear that the original Scala script for the movie was based on the Terry Rawlings book Who Killed Christopher Robin? although Scala also bought the rights to several other Brian Jones books. Fortunate enough to have an insider at the film company who had seen the script what initially worried me was that it portrayed Brian Jones as a violent, aggressive, drug addicted, drunk. Some may agree that this would have been a fair portrayal but my years of looking at Brian Jones life and death have shown that even those that did not particularly like Brian Jones always ended their story with a “but”. I had also heard that Anna Wohlin, Jones girlfriend at the time of his death would have nothing to do with this script in spite of the fact that Scala had also secured the rights to her book “The Murder Of Brian Jones”.

Further investigation showed that author Terry Rawlings was friendly with (and took advice from) Stones minder Tom Keylock on the content of his book basing his “Brian was murdered” theory on the supposed deathbed confession of Keylock’s friend and Brian Jones employee, builder Frank Thorogood. This was obviously the hook needed to launch Rawlings book and I am sure neither he nor Keylock would realise what a major can of worms they were opening when they concocted the confession story. This was the catalyst for fans and reporters to start looking long and hard into the events of the night of 2nd July 1969 and why we now find ourselves looking for the real truth behind the demise of Brian Jones. Before anything else I would like to thank Frank Thorogood’s nephew Mark Lyne for stepping into this discussion about the film and for putting the record straight about Frank’s deathbed confession used as a means to promote Rawling’s book. The truth as recounted by Mark that the confession was a hoax was also confirmed to me by the police who interviewed Keylock several years ago regarding the matter but unbelievably decided not prosecute him for wasting police time. I also take great interest that Rob Weingartner has talked of his friendship with Terry Rawlings and Rob I guess by your comment that Terry has told you he believes Brian’s death “unintentional” he could mean that Brian’s death was manslaughter rather than murder? It strikes me that Rawlings is still playing his cards close to his chest and his reluctance to say any more will probably last until the film is in production. My investigations show he certainly stands to profit from this film being made but how he could possibly believe that excess alcohol and drugs were the contributory factor is beyond me, look at the autopsy report. Nobody with Brian’s history of drink and drug abuse would have drowned with that little amount in his system. That is of course if the autopsy results are to be believed.

One thing for sure is that the two key players of that night who are still alive are Janet Lawson and Tom Keylock both of who have being working with Steven Woolley on the script for this film. Janet Lawson has never come out of hiding and publicly talked about the events of that night and in spite of an appeal by the East Sussex police on BBC TV’s Crime Monthly several years ago for anyone knowing her whereabouts to contact them she is yet to be interviewed. I have it on good authority that the police were given an address for Lawson but contrary to what they had said publicly they would not contact her stating that she had to come to them rather than them go to her.

I have had several conversations with Anna Wohlin regarding Janet Lawson and Wohlin’s biggest worry is that the basis of the film will be Lawson’s version of events that night which according to her are a pack of lies. Wohlin was for many years unaware of either Thorogood’s or Lawson’s statements taken on the morning of 3rd July but on reading them recently became incensed that Lawson could tell the police that she jumped into the pool to get Brian out. Anna Wohlin remembers well Lawson shouting to her from the garden that something had happened to Brian and that when she raced down to the pool Lawson stood and watched as Wohlin struggled to get Brian to the surface. Anna asked her for help and Lawson told her she couldn’t swim, Anna also called to Frank for help and she describes his reluctance to assist her preferring to watch while she struggled to hold Brian’s body above the water until she had no option but to let go and swim down again to the bottom of the pool to retrieve him a second time. Anna Wohlin also has serious doubts about the phone call Lawson said was for Anna prior to her leaving Brian and Frank in the pool, when she got into the house the line was dead but one of the receivers had been left off the hook and it took some time for Anna to find the right one to put back on, Brian had a phone in nearly every room. This could certainly be perceived as delaying tactics to keep Wohlin out of the way as long as possible and would mean that Brian’s death was premeditated making Lawson an accomplice to whatever was going on. Whether Brian sensed there may be trouble looming nobody is sure but Anna said his last words as she got of the pool were “Anna, don’t be long”. She felt unsure about leaving him with Frank but knew Janet was around somewhere although she had earlier noticed her disappear behind the bushes near the pool. Wohlin had only seen Janet Lawson once prior to that night and yet Lawson chose to tell her that she was in a real mess having discovered that she was pregnant. I have to correct the original theory that Lawson was Thorogood’s girlfriend, she had long since passed her affections on to Tom Keylock and by the time of Brian Jones death Frank was seeing Joan Fitzsimmons who the crew at Cotchford Farm used as a taxi service.

The assumption must be that Lawson had the child and perhaps that’s why she is still in contact with Keylock 35 years later and how he managed to get her involved with the film. Anna Wohlin has told me that she feels totally helpless and in spite of the fact she would love to sue if the film chooses to use a story that she knows is complete fabrication, it would be her word against theirs. She has also said that if Lawson ever comes out publicly and sticks to her version of events/statement then she will be on the first flight over from Sweden to publicly meet face to face and challenge her.

One certain thing is that none of the three statements taken by the police, Wohlin’s, Lawson’s or Thorogood’s match up and it is unbelievable that the police did not questions the witnesses further on such a serious matter. Perhaps one should consider that if she is to be believed much intimidation took place on Wohlin after Brian’s death, by Thorogood, Keylock and the Stones management and perhaps this indicates that her statement may be nearer the truth than the others? Lets not forget either that Joan Fitzsimmons ended up in hospital as a result of what she knew and according to my source at the East Sussex police changed her name and address soon afterwards.

I have tried unsuccessfully over the years to find anyone that is willing or able to confirm Tom Keylock’s statement to the Press on 3rd July that he was on his way to Keith Richards home in West Sussex to collect a guitar when he heard the news that Brian had died. This is perhaps where the Stones themselves are at fault because surely they must have been able to corroborate Keylock’s story? And yet they have remained silent. Keylock has talked about his brother in the CID and perhaps that is where we should look when we wonder why Keylock has managed to evade any kind of questioning for his actions over the years, perhaps his brother knows why the files on Brian’s death were accidentally lost? For any of you unaware of the distance between Keith’s house in West Sussex and Brian’s house in East Sussex, I personally believe it would have taken Keylock a lot longer than it took him to appear that night had he really been on his way to Redlands.

Probably the most corrupt people involved in the death of Brian Jones are the police and also his parents. I have spoken to several police officers regarding the case some on and some off the record; I have also had many doors slammed in my face. The original investigating officers confirm that they thought it was a cut and dry murder case but perhaps this was flawed with the discovery of drugs in the house which they subsequently found out were planted after Brian’s death by someone hoping to cover his friends back by making it appear Brian drowned under the influence. For the person who was brave enough to speak to me off the record about this I am truly grateful because it goes to prove the lengths that were taken to try and cover up a crime, this along with burning any evidence before it could be analysed. And the police let it happen. Brian’s parents are no better, the two people who could have stopped this cover up and had the case reopened had their own financial agenda choosing to make contact with the coroner within hours of their son’s death in the hope of not jeopardising any insurance claim.

During my research on the Brian Jones film I travelled to Cheltenham and considering Brian Jones funeral was one of the biggest this country had ever witnessed (apart from royalty) I expected to find a huge memorial to this superstar of the Sixties. But Brian Jones memorial is no different to the thousands of others in Cheltenham cemetery apart from one thing, all the others have “In Loving Memory” inscribed on them, Brian was not awarded such sentiment by his family….

Well into their eighties Lewis and Louisa Jones live a reclusive life in an exclusive suburb of Cheltenham on the rewards of their son’s chosen career, the same career they found so abhorrent while he was alive, easing their consciences with the occasional trip to his grave.

All I can hope is that if Steven Woolley has got the financial backing to get this film into production that his research team have done their homework. Perhaps Brian Jones wild and wicked life should not be the topic but the wild and wicked life taking place around him?

Name withheld

Message 32 - Saturday 10th July 2004

Response to Message # 31

Maybe I didn't explain it clearly the first time.

Terry Rawlings and I have spoken about Brian's death several times over the years, and he told me no more than two months ago that he thought Brian's death was caused by drink and drugs. He told me that he thinks the original findings were accurate, and that it’s not as sinister as what he originally thought. He told me ten years ago that he didn't believe in the deathbed confession (which everyone thought was bullshit to begin with) and that he didn't believe there was a major conspiracy involved (Klein did it or the Stones knew about it). He mentioned that Brian’s death was at worst manslaughter. That Thorogood might have accidentally drowned Brian in horseplay.

I just recently received an e-mail from Amazon.co.uk saying that the release of Terry Rawlings revised edition of "Who Killed Christopher Robin? The Truth behind the Murder of a Rolling Stone" has been cancelled by the publisher. It was originally due out in April of this year, and then it was pushed back to late May, and then again pushed back for a September 04 release. Now the publisher has cancelled the whole thing altogether. There was no explanation as to why. Maybe the publisher saw my last post and is afraid that Terry's book is just hogwash.

Rob Weingartner

Message 33 - Sunday 11th July 2004

No Rob, you explained it perfectly clearly first time round and I think my post responds to what you say Terry Rawlings told you? My worry is that Rawlings obviously thinks Brian died under the influence of drugs and alcohol and that's why I ask how he reached that conclusion given the autopsy report? I took it upon myself to look into all the books, authors, investigations and theories because I thought there was a story there that has never been published and that should be the basis of a film on Brian Jones death not what Mr Rawlings or similarly Geoffrey Giuliano printed to make a fast buck. It strikes me Rawlings is quite happy to say it was drink or drugs, but then perhaps it was horseplay or perhaps it was manslaughter! How could this be justified as a fair representation of the last few hours of Brian Jones life? I am glad you have brought everyone's attention to the fact that the revised edition of his book has been cancelled by the publisher and perhaps Scala should take that on board before they consider filming under the guidance of Terry Rawlings, Tom Keylock and Janet Lawson.

Trying to remain impartial throughout all this is tough when it is a foregone conclusion that this film if based on what we have read recently through Scala's Press Office is to use Rob's expression "hogwash" and heading for a Golden Turkey Award before it's even gone into production.

I think Rob's contribution to this forum is extremely important because of his friendship with Terry Rawlings whose book is the significant basis for this film.

Mr Hobley, I do appreciate that this forum is NOT a "message board" and I did not want to treat it as such but felt as Rob and I seem to be talking at cross purposes it was better to try and set the record straight for anyone else coming into the forum. Many thanks.

Name withheld

Message 34 - Monday 12th July 2004

I think Frank Thorogood was a raging, violent and long-time alcoholic.

He had been drinking for many long years before he met Brian. By the time he started working for Brian, he saw how wealthy Brian was, how he got the women he wanted, and became extremely jealous. And when a person drinks or takes drugs or both you either die, go insane, or go to jail especially for years and years. I am a recovering substance abuser myself. If one looks in Thorogood's past and delves into his life and business practices I think one would be surprised that his violent alcoholic madness did not only surface just with Brian. Brian caught on to his substandard construction and shoddy business practices and the fact Frank was ripping him off constantly. And when Brian confronted him, (remember the beam that almost fell on Anna??) Frank flew into a rage. He was in this volatile rage all evening and even though Brian tried to smooth things over Frank was too pickled from all his drinking and unable to do anything but seek revenge. Whether it started out as "horseplay" or something to "teach him a lesson" I think it was the latter. Brian was a strong swimmer and in better shape than Frank ever was. So Frank had some help in doing the deed. He was so full of rage he went too far. Period. And when it was too late, he tried to lie his ass out of it. Frank and his demon thugs took Brian's life no matter how one looks at it. Being completely intoxicated and angry as hell on top of it is a lethal combination. It doesn't take much to set a violent angry drunk off. Read the autopsy very carefully, the medical examiner says a lot of Brian's condition at the time of is demise and answers a lot of questions put to him by the interviewer. I sincerely hope this Cold Case File will be thoroughly investigated and the truth will finally come out.

Stop blaming Brian for his own death, it was not his fault.

Linda Zerr

Message 35 - Tuesday 13th July 2004

Isn't this forum a message board to discuss Brian death?? That's what I thought....

Miss U

Message 36 - Tuesday 13th July 2004

Talking about Brian's death - A friend gave me a CD called "ROCK REPORT" - Brian Jones & the rolling stones no expectations written & read by Geoffrey Giuliano which was put out in 1998 by KRB Music Companies Inc., Brentwood, TN (USA) It has interviews w/ Brian's dad (track 2), Tom Keylock (track 4), and "One Tragic Night - A Confession (track 6) in which is a recording Geoffrey Giuliano claims he made (in a London pub) of an interview with the other guy who was with Frank in on Brian's death - the guy claims in the interview that he & Frank were more drunk than Brian & that Brian was showing off swimming back & forth across the pool & the guy said something to the point towards Brian "well you think you're so bloody good huh? Then let's see how long you can hold your head under the water then" & the guy said they were horse playing around just having fun & Geoffrey said: "you got a funny sense of humor pal!" The guy said that him & Frank were pushing Brian up & down in & out of the water like 10-15 times & that Brian was pleading for them to stop & Geoffrey said to the guy: "Why would you F##%!K with someone like that!!. The recording has the guys voice doctored - the interview seems to appear real, another words it didn't sound like it was rehearsed, if it was then it was very good acting, however everyone who's heard it seemed to feel that the interview sounded very heavy & just too emotional at times during the interview to have been faked, Hopefully the truth will come out with the movie.

Name withheld

Message 37 - Wednesday 21st July 2004

Hello all Brian Jones fans.

Did anyone see the story in The Sun this week about the young boy who was found drowned in the pond in his garden, they battled for around 7 hours to save him and he came back to life and is fine!!!!! Makes you wonder huh..

Emailed the editor a copy of Brian’s Autopsy report, hopefully they will post it on the web for you guys to view.

So I decided to put my thoughts down on the murder again. Still thinking about the money Frank received for helping to dispose of Brian, all accounts say the builders involved received about £300, now when you consider the average labourers wage in those days was around ten bob (50p) then £300 is a mighty sum. If that’s what the builders got then Frank would have received more, not enough to retire on mind you. He would have blown it over the years.
I have also been thinking about Anna, why did she wait until Frank died to write the book.

Anna knows much more, COME ON ANNA IF YOU LOVED BRIAN TELL US ALL WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO BRIAN. I WANT AN ANSWER TO ALL THESE QUESTIONS FROM ANNA WOHLIN, LETS FORGET LINDA LAWRENCE, ANNA KNOWS AS MUCH AND SHE'S PREPARED TO TALK.

1. Who else was there on the day and the night Brian died.

2. Why did you lie to the police at the time?

3. If Frank was so bad why did you not tell Brian other friends to stay that night?

4. You must know at least if Tom Keylock was there, tell us that at least.

YOU ARE AS GUILTY AS THE OTHERS FOR MAKING MONEY FROM BRIANS DEATH IF YOU KEEP QUIET.

Gary Wilson

Message 38 - Saturday 24th July 2004

Mr Gary Wilson, thank you for the questions. If Anna does know more, she should tell what she knows. Where did Frank get the money to "dispose” of Brian'? Did anyone read Anna's book? I have a copy also. I hope we find out the answers to your questions. But I still feel what I said in my last message still holds true. If there is any more to it, then I want to know also. Thanks for sending the autopsy report - maybe it will be more revealing. It should have been Frankenstein that should have drowned not Brian.

God I miss Brian so darn much it really hurts.

Linda Zerr

Message 39 - Sunday 25th July 2004

I don't think Tom Keylock was there that night but I do think he was in Hartfield. For those of you not aware the woman (dog breeder) who Brian and Anna bought the puppies from lived locally and was a good friend of Joan Fitzsimmons the taxi driver that used to collect Keylock and Thorogood from Cotchford Farm. Joan Fitzsimmons of course was Frank Thorogood's girlfriend at the time of Brian’s death. In fact I think I am right in saying that she even collected Frank from the Stones office in London that day after he found his wages had been stopped? Anyway this would explain why Anna Wohlin did not see Keylock during the evening but also why she says he appeared so quickly on the scene after Brian died, he had to have been waiting locally and that’s who Frank made the first telephone call to rather than calling the police.

I think with the Wohlin book you have to ignore the "we were so in love" crap and try to focus on some of the very important comments she makes here and there, I do think she was trying to get the truth out but of course we all know now that she didn't even recognise the book after the publisher had finished with it. I find it interesting that she mentions on several occasions, fear and intimidation and perhaps an element of that is not as easy to shake off as us outsiders may think. I picked up on a couple of things, firstly where she says "she wondered if someone had slipped a pill into Brian's drink?" and secondly regarding conspiracy where she says "the Stones had nothing to gain from Brian's death, had they?" Those statements with their question marks at the end intimate to me that Wohlin certainly was trying to give the reader a huge hint at what she really thought was behind Brian's death. There are many more clues within the book if you have the patience to wade through the banal drivel that is expected by a tabloid publisher. I don't doubt for one minute that Blake Publishing were treading on legal eggshells with her publication but it also worries me that Wohlin's co-author rock journalist Christine Lindsjoo steered her towards accepting Blake Publishing’s offer to publish without Wohlin knowing John Blake had a long standing friendship with the Stones.

Anonymous

Message 40 - Friday 30th July 2004

Hey number 39! Yes Anna gives away, unwittingly I believe, an amazing little bit of info if in fact Brian was murdered! In her case in regards to Brian not being a druggie at the end of his life, she points out that he was even terrified to take the diet pills that the Doctor prescribed the week before and that he wouldn't even take those, never mind recreational drugs.

I believe this because I know sensitive people/artists tend to swing either from extreme risk takers, to hypochondriacs (me!). Brian felt he was getting fat (from wine) and so the doc gave him 10 or 11 durophet, those are black bombers, known as black beauty's here in the USA. They are an amphetamine, funny thing is tho, they were prescribed a mere week before Brian’s death yet in the report of what is found (at the back of the Rawlings book), we find (!), one bottle of durophet: empty!

Now wait a minute here!

As a drug dabbler myself, I have accidentally over dosed on capsule amphetamines (durophet is capsule). When I was 18, they had crushed in my pocket and I saved the contents and months later dropped them in my coca cola before going to a concert. They are COMPLETELY undetectable incidentally, and tasteless.

The result of too much speed is not necessarily a heart attack, but it puts you in a stunned state. I sat watching the entire concert of New York rock band without blinking once, and my body was just stiff/still. My OD was about 5 pills. 10 would most definitely stun you and stiffen you, almost like a shock state. Most certainly quite easily could you be drowned because your muscles and everything are STUCK.

So then we have to think about who would know to do such a thing, that such a thing would have such a result, IF in fact there was a conspiracy going on to kill/drown Brian. And then we go back to the people at the house - a minder/builder, Frank, a chick, Anna, and who else? A NURSE???

Hello?? If there was a conspiracy to easily drown Brian, then nurse Lawson would definitely know what to do with that bit of durophet to make Brian quite easy to manipulate physically. Yet she's participating with this movie? This movie in my opinion will not necessarily answer our questions, but I have the feeling it will lead to more questions, that may in fact get answered, so therefore - full speed ahead!

Roxanne

Message 41 - Friday 6th August 2004

Hello there.

Time to get my thoughts down on Brian’s death (again). I don't know about anyone else out there, but I go from feeling sorry for Brian to thinking what an a**hole for wasting his life away on drugs, don't get me wrong I think he was murdered but he would have still been in the stones had he not got so addicted to the various drugs he was on. This is my list of the people that definitely know what happened to Brian on the night he died and are still alive.

1. Tom Keylock

2. Anna Wohlin

3. Janet Lawson

I tell you all this, the people mentioned above have used their friendship with Brian to make money since he died. They are all as guilty as each other and they are all involved in this daft film.

I WILL NOT PAY A PENNY TO GO AND SEE THIS FILM WHEN IT COMES OUT!!!!

I KNOW A GUY IN THE PUB WHO SELLS COPIES OF MOVIES BEFORE THEY ARE OUT IN THE UK, I WOULD RATHER PAY £3 FOR A GOOD COPY THAN LINE THE POCKETS OF THE LEECHES MAKING MONEY FROM BRIAN’S DEATH.

Can anyone tell me how this film is a good thing??

If I told you I had made a film and was going to reveal who "Jack the Ripper" was would you go and see it?? Of course you would, but just like Brian's death it will all be speculation and someone’s interpretation of the truth.

WE WILL NEVER FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO BRIAN.

I feel better now.

Tooodle ooo

Gary Wilson

Message 42 - Saturday 7th August 2004

Oh Gary Wilson, in regards to your statement in caps, (which makes you feel better): how do YOU know? What have you got a crystal ball? What gives you the right to be a 'seer'? This kinda stuff always comes out, even if it's the little ole lady down the street, never mind all the energy directed to this situation. Put away your crystal ball, it's late."

Roxanne

Message 43 - Tuesday 10th August 2004

Anna's book still did Brian good even with all the editing, because as she said in her book, Brian had quit drugs and wouldn't want people to think he died of drugs. She also presented another sweeter side to his personality. If it wasn't for Anna I never would have been interested in finding out more on Brian.

Brian was very young and experimental; he took a lot of risks...if it wasn't for that we wouldn't have the musical gifts he gave to all of us to be remembered.

I also think it sucks that people have been writing a lot of trash on Brian to make money off his death, but I don't put Anna in that lot. It's easy to pass judgement on Anna from your armchairs, but I'm surprised people don't realize how much she went thru and how she is most likely still in fear for her life if she were to tell the whole truth. You can have good intentions but it doesn't always work out the way you want in life.

Miss U.

Message 44 - Wednesday 11th August 2004

Re message 42 from Roxanne. Don't take my views literally; they are after all only my views, they were intended to kick start a good debate on the subject of this film. SURELY YOU CAN SEE THAT THE COMMENTS MADE BY THOSE INVOLVED IN THE MAKING OF THE FILM (i.e. who killed Brian and why) ARE TO HYPE THE FILM.

I'm not into spiritualism, there is no such thing as a gift of seeing into the future. Let’s stick to facts.

Fact 1. Brian is dead and we will never find out the truth.

Fact 2. Re message 42, Brian WAS on drugs the night he died, I have seen the autopsy report and the coroners inquest report, he had also had a bit to drink.

Fact 3. Regardless of the above, he WAS murdered.

Fact 4. He was robbed after he died, clothes, guitars, antiques, furniture, amplifiers, the list goes on.

Anna has made money and continues to make money from Brian’s death; I don't go for the "she is in fear of her life" crap. She knows far more than almost anyone alive what happened to Brian, let her speak.

She could put this thing to bed and clear Brian’s name properly once and for all and let all of us enjoy Brian’s MUSIC? The music after all is why we are all interested in Brian right??????????????????

Gary Wilson

Message 45 - Friday 13th August 2004

In reference to Gary's previous response, sure Brian passed away but he DEFINITELY isn't forgotten. Brian was on drugs the night he died?........ Medication sure but Brian WASN'T a druggie & sure he was drinking but he was hardly drunk! Frank & the other guy - who by the way claimed that they were more drunk than Brian (according to the interview the guy made in a London pub with Geoffrey Giuliano) that you can hear on the CD ‘Rock Report - Brian Jones’ made by KRB Music Companies Inc - Brentwood TN (USA) CD catalogue number# KRB6029-2.

As far as the TRUTH coming out...Well you never know! BUT at least by the fact that things have been brought up now (35 years later!!) does at least say that Brian's death isn't being swept under the rug!

Brian must be smiling KNOWING that people still care about what happened to him - GOD BLESS YOU BRIAN! YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN! And YES it is mainly ABOUT THE MUSIC which is WHY Brian is remembered & ISN'T being written out of history - again sure it's about the music but Brian had a certain quality about him in his looks, presence & personality that also attracts fans besides the music - like Jimi Hendrix - A Brian Jones Or Jimi Hendrix couldn't be made today in today's processed pop culture!

THANKS to The Brian Jones Fan Club & all you Brian fans out there that are helping to keep Brian's memory alive!!. On money maybe being made on Brian's death? - Sure people could be making money on Brian's memory & death or maybe not, who knows? BUT life’s that way - there's ALWAYS gonna be people who'll try to make money off of other peoples talents & fame.

HEY BRIAN - AT LEAST YOU"RE STILL BEING THOUGHT OF!

From a True fan.

Anonymous

Message 46 - Friday 13th August 2004

If Anna could tell the whole truth without being edited or fearful of her life she would. If others have died who knew too much, how is this "crap"? It's very real, too real. Anna made very little money from her book, and in her book she states her reasons for writing the book. Yet people continue to trash her. Ever seen the movie "People I Know" with Al Pacino? If not then watch it & you'll know. It's dangerous to know too much. A lot of other people were there that nite too who aren't talking.....so there's A LOT of people who have been silenced out of fear and/or threats, including Steve Marriott who later died in that fire.

Miss U.

Message 47 - Monday 16th August 2004

Looking forward to this film perhaps putting the speculation "to bed" for once and for all.

Saw "The Stones" briefly in Tangiers in '68 when they were out there, we were playing in a club around the corner from their hotel and Brian looked OK then.

This has been a hotbed for discussion on The Blindman's Blues Forum.

The Blindman

Message 48 - Tuesday 17th August 2004

Good to see a few people coming forward in response to my comments on message 44.

Re message 45 - how do YOU know Brian was not a "druggie" ??? as you put it.

1. Let me just start by saying that Brian had been trying to REDUCE his drug intake at the time of his death , but was still on drugs when he died, regardless of whether they were prescription drugs or not. Remember prescription drugs are still HARD drugs. Also there was AMPHETAMINE in Brian’s urine on the autopsy report.

2. As for booze, there was the equivalent of 8 whiskeys in Brian’s blood, again this information is direct from the coroners report. This is a lot of drink for anyone.

SO LETS RECAP AND SET THIS OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL

BRIAN WAS DRINKING ON THE NIGHT HE DIED AND WAS ON DRUGS.

BRIAN WAS A HUMAN BEING JUST LIKE YOU AND ME, HE WAS NO ANGEL - HOWEVER HE DID NOT DESERVE TO DIE THAT NIGHT.

Re message 46 - please advise who were the people that knew too much but have since died are???????

As for Frank and the builders being more drunk, what does that have to do with it? The fact is they were ALL drinking that night and were ALL on downers (Valium/Mandrax) - mix in some alcohol and I AM SURPRISED THAT IT WAS ONLY BRIAN THAT DIED OR OVERDOSED.

Gary Wilson

Message 49 - Wednesday 18th August 2004

Interesting, Blindman. I went to the forum but couldn't find the BJ discussion, perhaps you can post a direct link.

Gary - this is a forum designed specifically about Brian's death. It's a topic we all have strong OPINIONS on, and very different opinions. Talking about it in a forum will not solve Brian's death. If we had all the answers, there would be no need to investigate Brian's death.

In response to your question, I never said a lot of people who were there that nite have since died. The majority of them are silent about it however. What happened to Nicholas Fitzgerald? Where is the ever-silent Janet Lawson? What happened to Joan Fitzsimmons? We do know Steve Marriott was threatened not to rehearse with Brian and we do know that Mary Hallett was under Keylock's control about what she said about that nite. Where are all the other people who were there that nite and why aren't they talking?.....

Miss U.

Message 50 - Wednesday 18th August 2004

On Brian being a druggie??? Brian WASN"T a druggie. The term druggie is used too loosely, a druggie is some one that's addicted to drugs like heroin, crack cocaine, pcp and are ONLY interested in getting their NEXT fix - nothing else matters except their addiction!!!! It is well documented that Brian was inviting musicians down to Cotchford to form a band AND it is known that Brian had auditions set up for July 4th (NEXT DAY) – in other words Brian wouldn't have bothered trying to get a band together much less set up an audition IF he was a druggie.

How do I know that Brian WASN"T a druggie? It is also well documented that Brian WAS getting his act together & getting off the drugs, read about Mary Hallett! - about her FOND MEMORIES of her & Brian having LONG chats over tea in her kitchen - she obviously thought VERY highly of Brian, now that doesn't sound like Brian was a druggie?? hhmmm....Of course Brian wasn't an angel & was only human just like you and me and sure he was taking prescription drugs but that don't make Brian a druggie, heck I smoke, I guess that I'm a druggie too since I'm addicted to nicotine!

And YES Brian did not deserve to die that night - thank you Gary! Hopefully the TRUTH as to why Brian died will come out & why his clothes & stuff was burned the next morning - weird!

Anonymous

Message 51 - Thursday 19th August 2004

Re message 50.

I don't want to be presumptuous, but come on, we don't know what drugs Brian was taking in addition to his prescription drugs. I agree we use the term loosely these days, but lets keep the forum relevant to Brian and his problem with drugs. If Brian was really off the drugs " Why did frank and Co use this as the reason he drowned and why did everyone believe him i.e. the press, public, police, Brian’s family even. If they all thought Brian was off the drugs why accept a story to the contrary?

Yes I am aware of the reasons behind the forum thank you Miss U, But I think that people are starting to be more interested about the circumstances surrounding Brian’s untimely death than his music/talent. I am much more interested in his talent and his contribution to the Stones than his death, yes I think he was murdered and would like to see his murderers brought to justice, but I like to point out FACTS rather than speculate. No, we won't solve the crime on the forum but it's good to talk/debate the things we do know.

All the British readers of this forum will be aware of the Michael Barrymore case a few years ago, all you guys from the states if you do a search on Barrymore you will see the story online, this is a fascinating case VERY similar to Brian case but with more of a homosexual twist. Basically Michael who is or WAS a household name in the UK had a party late one night at his mansion in England, (CUT A LONG STORY SHORT) a guy (Stuart Lubbock) was found dead in his swimming pool, now there was a party that night with lots of people there but when the police came there were only 2 or 3 (sound familiar )???. Now the point of this story (please read more online re this story as the similarities to what happened to Brian are striking) is that they never ever charged anyone with his death, it was blamed on swimming while under the influence of drugs. If they can't solve a crime like this in this day and age what chance do we have of finding out about Brian?? The authorities are not interested in this type of crime.

All the people who were at Brian’s that night have either had a book out or got on with their lives, apparently Janet Lawson has been involved in the film, hence the reason I will not pay to go and see it.

Gary Wilson

Message 52 - Saturday 4th September 2004

Re message 51- About Brian & his drugs? You say let's keep this forum relevant to Brian & his drug problems? Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the headline topic of this forum say: FORUM-THE DEATH OF BRIAN JONES -not Forum - Brian & His Drug Problems! If we don't know what (as you say) drugs Brian took in addition to Brian's prescription drugs then how do you know if Brian even took other drugs besides Brian's prescription drugs? & then say If Brian was really off drugs why would Frank & Co use drugs as the reason Brian died but then you later say that you believe Brian was murdered? sounds like you're contradicting yourself, I mean are you saying that Brian died from drinks & drugs or are you saying that you believe Brian was murdered while he was on drinks & drugs? In other words either was it an accident while Brian was on drinks & drugs or he was murdered-can't have both (doesn't make sense) EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER! Don't take it personal but I believe this forum is about the debate & topic of why & how Brian died, now It'd sure be interesting to find out the outcome of the movie & if the truth comes out on how Brian died & why things were removed from Brian's place the next morning & especially why Brian's clothes & things were burned in the garden-WHY?!! How's about Brian's guitars? REST IN PEACE BRIAN!

True fan.

Name withheld

Message 53 - Sunday 5th September 2004

In response to the anonymous message 52 let me clear up my views on this, I don't want to confuse anyone from America..........

QUESTION, The reason I know Brian was on other drugs apart from his prescription?

ANSWER, I have in my possession a copy of the coroners report and also a copy of the inquest report, full details include all the contents of his alcohol blood level and also what drugs he had consumed, even right down to what he had for his dinner!!!!

Yes I believe he was murdered. I am not saying he died from drink and drugs, merely that a lot of people on the forum believe he was off the drugs near the end, this is incorrect. All you Americans are obsessed with death and outlaws. The facts here are simple, Brian was a Rock and Roll star who pissed to many people off and paid the price with his life, no film or forum will solve this mystery. Lets enjoy Brian’s music and let the freaks dwell on what happened to him on the night he died.

If you are a true fan leave your name and tell me why you like Brian?? because of his music or because there is a mystery surrounding his death??

Gary Wilson

Message 54 - Tuesday 7th September 2004

Response to Gary message 53 - Hey Gary, you say that you want to clear things up by stating what you believe to be the truth & not to confuse anyone FROM AMERICA?? (laughs) Don't worry, you're not confusing me. You say a lot of people who post on this forum believe that Brian was off drugs near the end & that they are incorrect?? Does anyone recall reading the name Gary in any of the books as being listed as one of the people at Cotchford? You say you seen the autopsy report & that everyone is wrong? You should have them post the autopsy here at the website. Of course this forum won't solve the mystery, & we who are interested in what happened to Brian are not FREAKS WHO DWELL on Brian's death as you say, the Brian Jones fan club put up this forum and yes I'm AMERICAN and PROUD TO BE ONE! And NO we aren't obsessed with death & outlaws, and yes I am PROUD to say my family ORIGINATED from ENGLAND! It seems that you Gary are obsessed with claiming Brian to be a druggie and from many of the post you always seem to be very negative in your response towards many people who are posting their views just like you! WHY do I like Brian? when I was a kid my older brothers were playing 12 x 5, Aftermath, Big Hits (High Tide & Green Grass), Beggars Banquet, Through The Past Darkly & Let It Bleed over & over as they came out, later when I was 14 I bought More Hot Rocks (Big Hits & Fazed Cookies, Aftermath & Through The Past Darkly (MY FAVORITE!) & bought all the stones 60's albums, when I seen Brian having blonde hair in the record pics when I was young, I felt cool because I have blond hair too! I later read everything I could about Brian & it's the musicianship that Brian added to the Stones songs that helped make them the hits they've become - like: intro riff to The Last Time, main riffs (tremolo) in 19th Nervous Breakdown, flute in Ruby Tuesday, dulcimer in Lady Jane, fuzz guitar riffs on Think, sitar in Paint It Black, mellotron in We Love You & 2000 Light Years From Home, slide guitar on No Expectations - I could go on! Brian's musical parts are what makes the stones songs stand out from other groups! Brian's Joujouka album - Pipes Of Pan is great! I would love to hear the musical score of the movie A Degree Of Murder (composed by Brian) I hope it eventually gets released as Brian's playing on everything he's played on is AWESOME! Yes Gary It's because of the music & Brian was the first real bad boy on guitar in a rock band - there wouldn't be bad boy rock stars today as we know ‘em if it wasn't for BRIAN JONES & JIMI HENDRIX & yes, a Brian Jones or Jimi Hendrix couldn't be made today in today’s processed pop culture. Any positive responses?

From a TRUE FAN.

Kevin.

Message 55 - Wednesday 8th September 2004

Hello Kevin.

What a good response from you regarding the bait I left you in my last message. I can see you ARE a true fan. No I was not at Cotchford that night, he he. I am not obsessed with claiming Brian was a druggie, in fact I have NEVER EVER said that he was, I have merely quoted from the reports that I have and people who seem to regard Brian as a saint and wont accept the truth seem to have a problem hearing the truth.

I have to say sorry to all our American chums for my wee dig about them loving death & outlaws, it's just that I have just read Mark Chapman’s book recently and I am pretty upset with the guy but that’s another story I suppose. I must add also that I sent the editor of this web site verbatim copies of the reports I have regarding Brian's autopsy report, I was hoping they would post them on the web site but nothing as yet.

So Kev that was not too bad was it?

Gary Wilson

Message 56 - Thursday 9th September 2004

Response to message # 55

Hello Gary, You didn't bait me, you asked me WHY I liked Brian & asked if it was because of the music or because the mystery surrounding Brian's death and so I was glad to tell you. YES I'm a TRUE FAN of Brian's because of the music but like many other true fans, it'd also be nice to know what happened to Brian. I'm curious? - what does Mark Chapman or his book have to do with Americans? I can understand that you're pretty upset with him. Like Brian, Lennon was and still is truly admired by American fans & didn't deserve to die the way he did either. You say that you never said that Brian was a druggie & I'll give you that Gary but in message # 48 you say: how do you know Brian was not a "druggie"?? (aren't you implying Brian was a druggie by making that comment?) & also say in message # 48 & # 44 that Brian was on drugs the night he died, I'll give you credit by saying that Brian was trying to REDUCE his drug intake when he died in message # 48 & YES it is well known that Brian wasn't strung out on drugs towards the end - Mary Hallett spent many hours over tea with Brian & had very fond memories of Brian & thought so highly of him like he was a son of hers! & how many say that Brian was at his happiest & getting it together at Cotchford Farm - to me that is a positive to hear stuff like that & how Mary Hallett spoke of Brian! I would have loved to have met her. Yes, it'd be interesting to see the autopsy report but I doubt if it'd change how fans feel about Brian like myself. It would be interesting to see the outcome of the movie & if the case is reopened - one never knows what will happen, but with today’s technology there have been cases that have been solved that happened in the 40's & 50's (older than Brian's) - check out the show cold case files. It would also be interesting to find out as to why Brian's clothes & belongings were burnt in the garden but if nothing happens with the case either way people like Brian, Lennon & Hendrix will be remembered forever as they are already written in history & are legends.

From a TRUE FAN

Kevin

Message 57 - Monday 13th September 2004

Hi all. I'm a newbie. Just found this website tonight. I've been a Brian fan for approx. 20 years. Gary, I find your comments regarding Americans views on Brian to be a bit insulting. I have always held him in high regard due to his ability to master almost any instrument. Drugs do not come in to my opinion at all. If you are such a fan, why are you trying to pass judgement on why others are also fans? I don't see how it's relevant. Do you honestly think that all Americans admire him because he did drugs? Who are you to make that assumption for all Americans?

Name withheld

Message 58 - Monday 13th September 2004

The autopsy report and the inquest were both unusually vague and brief, especially for someone so famous. Dr Wecht has stated that was found in Brian's blood could not possibly be the cause of his death because once a drug shows in your urine it's not impacting. It's also possible that someone had put some drug in his drink unbeknown to Brian.

Name withheld

Message 59 - Thursday 16th September 2004

Hi Kevin,

Glad to see you have read my comments all the way back to the start on this. Let me go through your points raised.

The reason I was angry at the American was the fact that the American mental Health authorities let Mark Chapman slip through the net and inadvertently kill John Lennon, but that’s another story Kevin, I don't want to discuss that here.

The truth is we don't know exactly what drugs Brian was addicted to at the time of his death, we do know for a fact though he was hooked on valium which is a strong anti-depressant. In addition to that he was taking an amphetamine on the night of his death (see the autopsy report) and drink. Face facts Kevin and everyone reading this, Brian WAS still on heavy drugs the night he died.

As for Mary Hallet, COME ON what would she know about what Brian was on? Just because she had chats over a cup of tea doesn't mean she was aware of his drug intake does it?

With regards to the film, if you have read my previous notes you will see how I feel about it.

The film is out to make money simple as that, the film will NOT expose who killed Brian, WHY? because Tom Keylock is one of the advisors on the film, he said Frank confessed on his death bed knowing no one could substantiate the confession. Brian was basically robbed after his death, we know that all his belongings were stolen by Tom and Frank and divided up, anything like clothing was burned to clear the house. Tom Keylock has sold items of Brian’s over the years to fans.

Brian and Hendrix are legends?? Only because they died tragically, yes both talented Jimmy more so in my book, but both drug users who died as a direct result of the lifestyle they led.

The way you come across Kevin, tells me you are mixed up about the mystery surrounding Brian’s death, the facts are there a murder was committed yes, but don't get confused with reality and fantasy.

Brian is dead we will NEVER truly know how or why. This is my last post on this site, l’m bored with it.

Gary Wilson

Message 60 - Tuesday 21st September 2004

Hi Gary & True Brian fans,

Yes I read all your post as everyone else's and yes I respect your opinion Gary but you seem to want to tell me & all the Brian fans that we're wrong & you're right?? You say that valium is a strong anti-depressant-WRONG! valium is a tranquilizer which is a completely different class of drugs from anti-depressants. Jimi & Brian are famous because of their brilliant musicianship not because they died young you seem to contradict yourself again, you say both Jimi & Brian died because of their lifestyles - you say BOTH DRUG USERS & then you say the facts are a murder was committed - can't be both! Again either one or the other - hey Brian fans correct me if I'm wrong if you believe that Gary's not contradicting himself. Gary just stick to your fantasy of Brian being a drug user & let us other Brian fans have our own beliefs & keep digging Brian's musical contributions! Gary - it is a very heavy statement for you to claim that Tom Keylock & Frank stole Brian's stuff - Can you back that up! Of course money will be made on the movie-nothing in this world is for free. If Brian really was a drug user like you claim Gary then Mary Hallet would have seen this - let me guess? Brian said I'll be clean while I go have long chats over tea with Mary - also Brian's dad has said that he hadn't seen Brian on drugs much less using them! I invite Brian's dad to post his view on this & I already know what he'd say & that's that He's never seen Brian on Drugs Gary - I would like other fans views also - A TRUE FAN.

Kevin.

Message 61 - Thursday 23rd September 2004

Kevin, I also am a Brian fan. I don't understand what Gary's trying to get at here. I'm unsure of his point. What is the point in trying to portray Brian as a druggie at the end of his life? By all accounts I have read he had cleaned up his act and was making plans, (happily) for the future, musically and otherwise. I think perhaps Gary may be one of those people that can be labelled as a "know it all" and has now put his tail between his legs and run off letting the true fans revel in what contributions Brian made before his untimely death.

Erin

Message 62 - Thursday 23rd September 2004

Hello Erin,

Thank you for being positive & for being a Brian fan also - I know Brian is smiling! I definitely can understand how you feel about what is Gary's point to try to make Brian out to be a druggie at the end. Like you, I've also read a lot on how Brian was happy & getting it together towards the end of his life & I've read that Brian's parents visited Brian in late spring of 69 & how they noticed how Brian was calmer & had mellowed out & at his happiest in years (many people who visited Brian have claimed this!) & I've read that Brian liked groups like Creedence Clearwater Revival & blues groups like that & was always playing the record of Proud Mary all the time & wanted to start a group somewhat like CCR - & had sessions set up for july4th! Brian would have had an AWESOME band! I feel that Brian is remembered for his musical contributions rather than the tragedy that he died young like Jimi but they both did more in their short time than more people achieve in a lifetime! but one things for sure - Brian is definitely being remembered! From a true fan.

Kevin.

Message 63 - Thursday 23rd September 2004

I'm glad to hear you say these things, Kevin. By all accounts Brian had put a new band together and was about to release a single before he died....supposedly a fusion of musical styles with his beloved Jajouka mixed in.

I do know for a fact that Tom Keylock has sold 1 or more items of Brian's to a stones fan. It is odd that so many of his items have turned up at auctions.....who is profiting? And shouldn't his personal belongings go to his family and children?

Miss U.

Message 64 - Thursday 23rd September 2004

Hi there my stateside chums. I have come out of retirement to settle this matter once and for all. No one here knows Brian, no one here knows what drugs he was on. Of course his dad and Mary Hallett etc are going to make him out to be an angel after he died.

The people who know how and why he died are as follows - Tom Keylock, Anna Wohlin, Nicholas Fitzgerald, Erin. Stop living in another planet, I suppose your gonna tell me that Elvis is still alive next??

Listen I am a Jones fan too, but I dig his music, I will leave the dreamers like you to paint him as an saint. In the 60s in the UK they gave valium to people with depression. SO GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT. I am the only one speaking out about this and for being honest about Brian and his life style.

Anyone who fathers kids and has nothing to do with them and hits women gets no respect from me no matter how good a musician he was. I still like his music though. There I go contradicting myself again Kevin

toodle pip - Gary Wilson

Message 65 - Saturday 25th September 2004

Hello Brian fans,

Of course Brian was no saint-no one is and I doubt Brian's Dad & Mary Hallett would make Brian out to be an angel just because he died but the difference is that they knew him! I've also read where Brian had wanted to have his kids come out to Cotchford! And Brian hits women - now I'm not condoning that but isn't there two sides to every story? Hey Erin wasn't Elvis just spotted recently in Oregon at a Burger King asking for a cheeseburger with peanut butter & bacon? Of course Brian was getting a band together & all that - I would have loved to have heard Brian's version of Honky Tonk Women - it would be killer! I've read that Brian's Dad heard Brian's version of HTW & wondered what happened to the tape since Brian died - It's sad reading of Brian's stuff being sold (same thing happened to Jimi Hendrix) Brian's kids should get the profits or at least Brian's things could be put in a museum.

From a True Fan.

Kevin.

Message 66 - Sunday 26th September 2004

Gary, not to be as impolite as I find you to be, but what makes you the authority on Brian? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the common thread on this board I believe is that we are all Brian fans. I find your comments to be antagonistic and rude. I'm not saying Bri was stone cold sober or a complete angel at the time of his death but what is the point of insulting someone who has died and can't defend themselves. I don't believe that you were there that evening. Which in itself makes your comments opinion - not fact. I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I find it extremely arrogant to claim your opinion is the correct one and everyone else's opinion is rubbish. Are you on this site as a fan, or looking for arguments. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as are you. It's ok if others feel differently.

Erin

Message 67 - Monday 27th September 2004

Now we get to the crux of the matter, Gary. You believe Brian was a bad person, so he deserved to die. Bad things only happen to bad people, right? Wrong! If you read Anna's book you would know Brian had a sweet side and wanted to establish a relationship with his kids at Cotchford. Dawn Molloy also has told me Brian was always kind and sweet to her. And if there was so much animosity from the women he dated, why would Pat and Anita be in his fan club?

Miss U.

Message 68 - Monday 27th September 2004

Good evening to all Brian Jones/Stones fans. Erin, I think you are missing the point here, firstly I don't claim to be an authority on Brian. I do have an opinion on the guy and his death. I am sorry if that offends you personally.

I am a fan of Brian and I am sorry he died the way he did, I would like to see his killers brought to justice and the truth told, But it will never happen guys, people are making money from the murder mystery aspect and I think that’s why I am so angry.

I am not looking for arguments but some times the truth or what is more than likely the truth seems to be hard to take for some people.

I also think that some people are hero worshiping Brian and taking his life/death far too seriously.

Gary Wilson

Message 69 - Monday 27th September 2004

Hi Kev/Erin, I am going to just address this to you guys as I think it's just the 3 of us that use the forum.

Check out this link http://indigo.ie/~mango/Index.htm

It’s for the Julian Jones web site, YES Brian’s son. It’s very interesting and you can email Julian directly and he will respond to your questions.

How cool is that?? See I can be nice!!!!!!!!!

Gary Wilson

Message 70 - Tuesday 28th September 2004

Erin - your message # 66 was very well put and yes all of us Brian fans are entitled to have our own views (opinions) on Brian and you said it like it is, no offence to Gary but he has been rude towards everyone & is probably stewing but that’s okay as we have views on Brian too. Has anyone heard anything new about the film yet? like if the filming has been started yet? I read that Amanda Lear was Anita's friend & roommate (1966) & read in Mojo magazine (July 1999 issue - Brian on the cover w/ article on Brian) that Brian had a car pick her up to bring her out to Cotchford and while on the way to Cotchford that she suddenly decided she was going to go see Salvador Dali instead so she had stopped at Gatwick & had the car sent back to Cotchford & jumped on a plane & told Pat Andrews later that if she could ever change anything that would be it. I also read in same article in Mojo (same issue) that Terry Rawlings said on Brian's death that it's all very sinister and eerie & that there's some very dark corners of the whole story that I could never have put in my book, how it was done, how it was covered up & that the policeman who inherited the original investigation was forever saying to me (terry) - your book got pretty close to it but the stuff I could tell you - which I can't - is a book in itself but it will all come out eventually. Anyways who knows? - maybe one day we will find out what happened to Brian? - if not when the movie comes out - true fan.

Name withheld

Message 71 - Tuesday 28th September 2004

Gary, (poor Gary!), the comment you made about valium being given by docs for the depressed is a great one. For many, including myself, in reading that he was still on valium in the Summer/Spring of 1969 had/have a feeling it's connected with drug abuse and that may not necessarily be so. Which goes hand in hand with the theory that he was not getting high on drugs in that era of his life.

But I think that you are a bit short-sighted about his reputation in regards to his relationships. And so are his offspring, I imagine, if one looks at their stick-their-heads- in-the-sand behaviour in regards to Brian's last days on this planet. Brian was merely 27 when he died. He was never given the chance to turn-around. From what we know from writers who've researched his life, he was a black sheep, disliked by his alkie mother, watched keenly by his heavy father, and being English (sorry Gary) he probably was discouraged to 'vent'... Then he ventures out into the 'city' for his artistic dreams, lands himself in an unreal whirlwind of a life which includes any woman, and money.

With his background and upbringing the way it's described, it's no wonder he had a 'problem' with chicks. Then before the guy had a chance to get a foothold on his new 'life', drugs come along as the latest fad. As a Pisces of course he'd partake, which put on hold, his development. I think in July 1969 he was just beginning to come out of a fog, and just beginning to 'grow up'. The fact that he didn't want to hang and record with the Stones anymore is probably the best proof of this, as their lives weren't exactly upright either. And let's face it, any interviews of Brian, or just if one is good at discernment, you can look at Brian and just KNOW he was superior to the other Stones. I'm not talking about silk shirts, I'm talking about psychism, maturity (yes maturity), and all else. I think if he wasn't snuffed out, he would have COMPLETELY turned around, and I think that would have included having a REAL CLOSE relationship with probably ALL his sons (and daughters?)..Brian was an extremist, some people are just that way. I'm like that, I've gone from being a major partier to phases in my life as a complete hypochondriac. Balance is a goal, and a challenge, (which I currently have under control).

A great musician friend of mine once said, "Everything in moderation. Including moderation”. Don't any of you feel that deep down in your gut that had Brian lived he would have ended up being ridiculously close and attached to his kids, all of them? Something about his personality just tells me this is true. And he certainly would have been able to deal with his friendship and 'past' with the Stones, as it was he, (not M & K) who was the most socially stable, (and accepted), and secure in his friendships with peers...

I wish that, mainly the two Julian’s, would think about what they've learned about their dad, from ALL analytical sources, and realize that Brian never HAD THE CHANCE to make it with them, being taken at 27, and probably would have. If they knew that, realized that, they'd probably open the case in a flash. I know Julian Leitch and I find he's really short- sighted in this regard, and unforgiving. In the Christian faith there is no greater mystical power than the karma from forgiveness.

And dearest Gary, no one is more obsessed with death than you English! Between the Cobain obsessions, and the reputations for spiritualists, and mediums, come on now! Always………..

Roxanne

Message 72 - Tuesday 28th September 2004

Hello Brian fans - Erin, Miss U, Gary & everyone, Yes Gary I can see where you’re coming from but I can also see where Erin & Miss u are coming from. I do agree about how you feel really angry about money being made on Brian's death - I totally agree! but life is not fair (this is reality) - there's two kind of artist in the world, first there's the true artist like Brian & then there's con artist, the true artist are the one's like Brian who are gifted & paid their dues & the con artist are like people with no talent like record companies, managers, tabloids, media who milk the artist (star) for everything they're worth - even after death especially if the artist is legendary like Brian, Jimi, Lennon, Elvis, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe etc - now I'm not saying that the movie is a money making plot or anything like that - the film maker could honestly be trying to really find out what really happened & Tom Keylock could only be there for guidance, but No one - not even anyone who knew Brian could change my views of Brian because theirs is only their personal view (opinion) of Brian - which in itself is their reality or fantasy (in other words feelings) perception of Brian but honestly Gary - wouldn't you really like to know the truth on what happened to Brian – in other words if the truth actually did come out rather than to have the feeling that we'll never know? I know that I - like many other Brian fans would like to know. Did you see how Pat Andrews choked up when she spoke of Brian on A&E's biography of Mick Jagger - I was very moved that Brian still touches her that way after all these years - Brian surely made an impression on Pat! George Harrison said that Brian was a gentle, kind person! & that WE MUST REMEMBER HIM THAT WAY, I read that Anita recently said that Brian was her true passion in life! Isn't it funny how it's the nice, sincere, sensitive people like Brian & Jimi that are always prosecuted! Those workers at Cotchford & many people since who treated Brian terrible were & are JEALOUS OF BRIAN because he had the looks, talent & was a sensitive person! It was Brian who was always giving autographs & writing fans the most! Gary - you feel that some of us are taking the hero worship thing too far? Well that's okay - yes I'll admit it - BRIAN"S MY HERO! heck yeah Gary! There's nothing wrong with hero worship or looking up to someone for inspiration, It's only wrong when you worship them like they are a god or anything like that and both Brian & Jimi would be the first to say that they are no one special - just people like you & me & not a god! - back in the 60's & 70's kids had heroes to look up to like Brian, Jimi Hendrix, Lennon, Elvis, John f Kennedy, Ali, Bruce Lee - I could go on and it's sad that kids today don't really have that, I mean really who do they have today? Of course I don't worship Brian but what I'm saying is that I truly admire Brian for his talents & besides it's cool to have someone like Brian to look up to for inspiration! Hey Gary - I guarantee that if the stones showed film Clips of Brian during shows that the fans would be cheering LOUD! & that's because Brian was cool & the BADDEST rock star guitarist to hit the stage like JIMI! & they were best friends! Yes I've seen Brian's son's website - it's cool & thank you for posting it Gary.

From a true fan

Kevin

Message 73 - Wednesday 29th September 2004

Does anyone else suspect Suki Poitier may have been involved somehow in Brian's demise?

Name withheld

Message 74 - Saturday 2nd October 2004

Dear Brian Jones Fans:

Haven't been here for a while and it is good to see you are all having a real good discussion on Brian, his music, his life and his death.

I agree with all of you. From what I have heard and understand there has been a lot of information that has been hidden, covered up and maybe even destroyed. It sure would be interesting to look at it.

You guys really know your Brian information! I have learned a lot reading these entries. Maybe sometime soon we will learn the whole exact truth of everything that took place in addition to what Anna wrote.

Linda Zerr

Message 75 - Saturday 2nd October 2004

Roxanne, you are some "chick" as you put it.

My comments regarding valium are true, you obviously are unaware of the NHS health system in the UK or the fact that Brian had a private doctor on Harley Street in London. I know valium is a form of sedative but so are Mandrax and he had those on prescription also. So my point to you is why was he on TWO forms of sedative. I will answer it for you. He was on Mandrax to help him sleep and Valium for his nerves.

Secondly I totally skipped past all the nonsense you wrote about the reasons he had nothing to do with his kids. What a load of rubbish.

He abandoned his kids. FULL STOP. He wanted nothing to do with them.

Regarding the Stones and Brian not wanting to hang out with them, WRONG again Roxanne. The Stones dumped Brian because he was "a pain in the ass". Not my words but Mick Jagger. He was too "out of it" to record anymore, his nerves were gone and he was still wired on drink and drugs regardless of what ANYONE says this is true.

And for the English loving death, maybe they do but I am not English I am from Scotland so you got that WRONG too.

Gary Wilson

Message 76 - Sunday 3rd October 2004

I thought I would drop this bit of information on the site before Roxanne and Kev give me a hard time for my latest message on Saturday.

Take a look at this before and think before you post your next message. 7th July 1969. Report from Mr Cooc Biochemist, Royal Sussex Hospital, Brighton, England.

1. BLOOD BARBITURATE = Nil

2. BLOOD ALCOHOL = 149mg (approx 7 whiskeys, or 3 pints of beer)

3. URINE = Amphetamine like substance 1720micro grams (in normal urine this never exceeds 200 micro grams) these figures suggest ingestion of a fairly large quantity of a drug.

4. THIN LAYER CHROMATOGRAPHY = failed to reveal the presence of the following in an unchanged state.

Amphetamine , methedrine, morphine, methadrine, isoprenaline.

BUT did show the presence of 2 dense spots, one YELLOW ORANGE which has not been identified and the other A PURPLE SOOT. This could be due to Diphenhydramine, which is present together with methaqualone in MANDRAX, which the deceased is known to have taken.

NOT MY WORDS GUYS, BUT THE OFFICIAL REPORT.

I find this very very scary, purple soot etc?? What the hell was Brian on the night he died??? I am convinced he drowned but he seems to have made it easy for them???? Lets keep the forum focused on his death not his kids etc

Gary Wilson

Message 77 - Sunday 3rd October 2004

I just wanted to add to the discussion about Brian's kids -- Julian Leitch is not highly religious, and he thinks there should be more focus on Brian's life not his death. "Let his music speak for him" to quote him directly. He is private as he should be, and Mark Andrews prefers to live a normal private life according to Pat. That doesn't mean they have no interest in their father, far from it.

I never got the impression Julian or John Molloy have any intense negative feelings towards their biological father. They know what they know through what their mothers tell them. And whatever their mothers went thru, they've also seen the good in Brian and seem to understand him.

Miss U.

Message 78 - Monday 4th October 2004

Hello Brian fans,

Hey Gary, Roxanne some "chick" as she put it? heck - she might be a hot chick for all you know Gary! And you skipped what Roxanne said about the reasons Brian not seeing his kids & that its rubbish what she said? Well according to Roxanne - she KNEW Julian Leitch. Brian abandoned his kids FULL STOP? Brian died & DIDN"T HAVE THE CHANCE to get to know much less rather be there for his kids!! You say that Brian wanted nothing to do with them - how do you personally know that? You don't know what Brian FELT IN HIS HEART about his kids - you are just assuming, therefore Gary - what God gave you the choice to SPEAK FOR BRIAN?

Brian not wanting to hang out with the Stones? Have you read the book Rock & Roll Circus where the director Michael Linsay Hogg said that he had to talk Brian into appearing at the Rn'R Circus & that Brian didn't want to come because he felt he wasn't wanted!! For someone who you say was TOO OUT OF IT Brian sure played slide on "No Expectations" perfect WITH perfect timing not to mention Jumpin Jack Flash, Parachute Women (I could go on!) I have to laugh w